HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-25-2007 Special Session Minutes Minutes of the Special Session of the
CITY OF OCOEE GENERAL EMPLOYEES' PENSION BOARD
Held on September 25, 2007
At 150 N. Lakeshore Drive
Ocoee, FL 34761
AGENDA ITEM I. CALL TO ORDER—Chairman Wagner
A. Chairman Russ Wagner called the meeting to order at 9:11 a.m. in the Commission
Chambers in City Hall.
The roll was called and a quorum declared present.
Present were Trustees Russ Wagner, Terry Reed, Jean Grafton, Tom Hendrix and Wendy West.
Also present H. Lee Delmer, Attorney; and Jim Carnicella, Human Resources Director/Plan
Administrator
B. Investment Consultant Interviews
Chairman Wagner stated four firms had responded to the RFQ for Investment Consultant and it
was narrowed down at the last Board meeting to two firms, Burgess Chambers & Associates,
Inc. and Bogdahn Consulting, LLC. Chairman Wagner advised that each firm would make a
presentation and summarize the information that had been given to the Board in writing with the
intent to possibly move ahead in the selection of a new firm. Trustee Grafton asked if there was
a list of questions, to which Chairman Wagner advised there were three questions handed out by
Human Resources and stated he had some questions of his own he wanted to ask them. Further
discussion ensued.
a. Burgess Chambers & Associates, Inc.
Burgess Chambers introduced himself and the other two representatives from his firm in
attendance, Sidney Taylor and Karla Engard. Burgess Chambers stated he founded the firm in
1988 and said it was the first consulting firm in Florida focused in the public market that was a
non-brokerage, non soft dollar compensated firm and reported that their firm currently has 48
clients representing 1.1 billion dollars. He also reported they are a fiduciary and are independent
with no direct or indirect compensation arrangements with any firms they track, monitor,
recommend or so forth. He said they are an experienced team with three consultants and the firm
is specialized in the Florida market. He stated education was a big part of their firm and could
do workshops for the Board when needed. Burgess Chambers stated their reputation was
excellent, which is evident by the fact that they have very high client retention and are ranked as
one of the top 50 consultants in the country. Mr. Chambers said he looked for innovative,
intellectual and ethical people to work in his firm. He said their firm is proactive and advised
there are five critical areas they view are most important; one being compliance, to which Karla
Engard addressed the Board and briefly explained. Ms. Engard said she has been in the public
market for the last 25 years specifically working with municipal plans. Karla Engard went on to
explain the other areas that are most important to the firm which are risk management, actuarial
soundness, to improve performance and benefits, and reducing costs and further explained in
detail. Karla Engard briefly explained the ongoing day to day process, monitoring and
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Special Session,September 25,2007
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administration. She stated their firm puts a focus on the reconciliation of bank statements,
receipts and disbursements and went on to explain. Ms. Engard said they look at the Investment
Policy Statement for compliance throughout the year. She spoke about rebalancing and said they
would be periodically looking at it and bringing recommendations back to the Board. Chairman
Wagner asked if she would be the Board's main contact to which Ms. Engard stated she handles
all of operations management for everything that happens on paper and could be our day to day
contact. Karla Engard assured the Board they could be here and available whenever the Board
needed them or whenever the Board had questions. Burgess Chambers stated the lead on the
account will be one of the consultants such as himself or Sidney Taylor. Chairman Wagner
asked how many people were in his firm, to which Mr. Chambers replied seven. Further
discussion ensued. Trustee Grafton asked about having help filling out forms and stated there
had been a problem in the past which kept the money from being transferred in a timely manner.
Mr. Chambers stated the firm would fill out the necessary forms and just have the Board sign off
on them. He also stated that the problem described was typical of large firms.
Sidney Taylor then spoke about performance and continued to go over the presentation. Mr.
Taylor briefly went through examples of some of their clients with regard to performance.
Burgess Chambers explained that you don't have to use the same managers everywhere to get
high returns. He said what is important is having the appropriate asset allocation and that over
the years there was too much emphasis on hiring the best managers. He said all managers over
time are average, some times they do very well and there are times when they don't do well. Mr.
Chambers said if the Board was striving for the best of the best as far as managers go they were
going to be disappointed and advised that instead the Board should look at the allocations.
Chairman Wagner referred to the handout and asked if their clients were doing better than our
plan, to which Mr. Chambers stated about 90% of their clients were doing better. He stated all
the clients that have taken their recommendations over the last five years have made 8% or better
average and gave examples. Chairman Wagner spoke about some of the changes the Board had
made to this plan but explained they have not been happy with the returns. Further discussion
ensued. Chairman Wagner asked if Burgess Chambers would come back with recommendations
of investment managers to select from. Mr. Taylor said they could come back to the Board with
a short list of managers to interview. Mr. Chambers said that if the Board hired their firm he
would draft up a revised investment policy and will recommend an asset allocation structure as
well as give a commentary on the plan's current line up of managers. Further discussions
ensued. Chairman Wagner asked if there were any questions. Trustee Grafton asked the three
questions handed out by Human Resources and Mr. Chambers responded to the questions.
Burgess Chambers said that the Board would get the attention that apparently they hadn't
received for years. Trustee West asked who would put in the trades that their firm recommended.
Mr. Chambers said they would recommend the Board utilize three different brokers with pre-
negotiated commission rates and the investment team managers would then choose from any of
those three. Attorney Lee Denner stated he had some questions for contract purposes and noted
that their fee was $18,000. Burgess Chambers said the fee was probably low and explained why.
Attorney Dehner asked about fee increases and Mr. Chambers responded that the quarterly fee
would probably not increase for two to three years. Further discussion ensued. Chairman
Wagner then thanked Burgess Chambers for coming and stated the Board would get back to
them concerning the selection.
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Special Session,September 25,2007
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b. Bogdahn Consulting,LLC
After a 10 minute break, Chairman Wagner opened the meeting by explaining what the Board
was here for and mentioned the recent changes made to the plan. Chairman Wagner stated the
Board was looking for someone who could lead the plan in a better direction. Joseph Bogdahn
introduced himself and the other representative from his firm in attendance, Michael Welker.
Mr. Bogdahn stated they were based out of Winter Haven and began going over the handout that
was given to the Board. He explained why it was important to have an independent consultant.
Mr. Bogdahn stated their fee is on a fixed fee basis and they have no association with any
investment management firm and act as a fiduciary for their clients. Joe Bogdahn stated they
have a team of 20 and have had no employee turnover. He said they are 100% employee owned
and have 7 investment consultants. He stated that 85% of their business is Florida municipal
pensions and 100% is investment consultant for a hard dollar fee. Joe Bogdahn stated they
represent more Florida public plans than any other consultant in the state and went on to explain
how that was important. He said they take care of problems as they become problems, not after
the fact. Mike Welker explained in further detail. Joe Bogdahn reported that they have never
been terminated by a client, he then continued with the presentation. He stated that they have a
can-do philosophy and will adapt to our Board's needs. He stated that if the Board was
displeased with their services at any time during the first year their firm would refund the fee
paid up to that point. Mr. Bogdahn continued with the presentation. He also stated that during
the past 11 years the firm had added over 120 Florida municipal plans and not lost any clients.
He also reported they have had no employee turnover. Joe Bogdahn then turned over the
presentation to Mike Welker. Mr. Welker stated they were going to challenge the Board and
Ciry further explained. He then continued to go over the handout. He said the plan's asset allocation
design needed to be modified slightly and went on to explain. Mike Welker stated that with the
fixed income right now our plan has a high implementation cost because of using SunTrust and
bundling several things together. He said he believed the total fee being charged was about 65
basis points for fixed income management and said that it was about 40 basis points higher than
some of the best bond managers in the country. Mr. Welker said the plan could become more
efficient with the overall portfolio and said by unbundling and adding an independent custodian
and an independent bond manager the plan would have more flexibility to negotiate fees. Mike
Welker continued with the presentation and went on to explain what changes could be made in
the portfolio and with the managers. He spoke about risk return and said it's great to get more
during the upside but the test is how the portfolio holds up during the downside. Joe Bogdahn
spoke and further explained. Mike Welker said they would get our plan out of Mutual Funds
immediately. He reported that at the end of the last fiscal year (9-30-07) 93% of their clients
ranked in the top 40% and said of that 93, 87 are in the top 25%. He then explained how our
plan compared. Chairman Wagner asked Mike Welker to elaborate on why he mentioned they
should not be involved in Mutual Funds. Mr. Welker stated that for the most part Mutual Funds
were created as a business model for the retail investor and explained. Further discussion ensued.
Joe Bogdahn said that Mutual Funds are not required to execute on a best execution basis and
went on to explain. Chairman Wagner asked the Board if there were any questions. Trustee
Grafton asked the three questions handed out by Human Resources and Joe Bogdahn responded.
Trustee Grafton stated that she read through the information Bogdahn submitted for the RFP and
said was impressed with the part regarding software and hardware and their recovery process.
Chairman Wagner asked Bogdahn what they would do initially to revise our portfolio and how
quickly they could move on it. Mike Welker responded. Trustee Grafton asked about having
help filling out forms and explained there had been a problem in the past with doing so. Mr.
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Special Session,September 25,2007
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Bogdahn stated the firm would send the necessary word documents for the Board to put on their
Cor letterhead and if any forms needed to be filled out they would be here in person to help.
Attorney Lee Denner stated he had some questions to ask for contract purposes. Attorney
Dehner mentioned Bogdahn's fee of$19,500 and asked if it was guaranteed for any period, to
which Mr. Bogdahn responded three years. Attorney Dehner asked if a more favorable fee would
be offered if the other pension fund (the Police Officers' and Firefighters' Pension) decided to
retain them as well, to which Mr. Bogdahn responded yes. Attorney Delmer then asked if their
firm agreed to come to all quarterly meetings and more frequently if needed. Joe Bogdahn stated
yes. Chairman Wagner thanked them for coming and stated the Board needed to discuss what
was presented and would get back to them concerning the selection.
Chairman Wagner asked Plan Administrator Carnicella if he had any questions. Mr. Carnicella
suggested to the Board that either company would be good but thought the bigger firm might be
a little better because of the education behind the people at Bogdahn. He said Bogdahn was the
larger company but the fee was higher. Trustee Reed stated that he though both companies were
equal. Chairman Wagner spoke briefly about the differences between the two companies.
Trustee Grafton stated either company would probably be good and asked Attorney Dehner if
there would be a reason to choose one over the other, to which Dehner said both are competent
firms. Trustee Hendrix stated both companies were very close so he would have to think about
it. Chairman Wagner stated the Board really needed to move forward and said he would like to
make a decision at today's meeting. Trustee West said she favored Bogdahn because of the staff
they have, to which Trustee Hendrix said he agreed. Chairman Wagner stated he liked the small
town flavor of Burgess Chambers but that returns with Bogdahn were better and more aggressive
so he favored Bogdahn. On motion made by Trustee Grafton, seconded by Trustee Hendrix,
unanimously
RESOLVED to hire Bogdahn Consulting, LLC as the new Investment Consultant,
contingent up successful negotiations of the contract, and to terminate the current
agreement with Merrill Lynch once the contract with Bogdahn Consulting had been
agreed to and signed.
Attorney Dehner stated he would draw up the contract immediately and get it to Bogdahn to
review. After some discussion, Chairman Wagner stated the Board should meet in about two to
three weeks so they could move forward instead of waiting until the next regular meeting in
November. Attorney Denner asked Plan Administrator Carnicella to get back to them with a
date around the first or second week in October.
AGENDA ITEM II. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Secretarial Services Agreement
Trustee Grafton asked if the rate of$20.00 an hour included recording the minutes or if it was
just for transcribing/typing the minutes. Plan Administrator Carnicella stated it was just for
transcribing/typing the minutes of the pension board meetings and does not include the time
spent recording or attending the meetings. On motion made by Trustee Grafton, seconded by
Trustee Reed, unanimously
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Special Session,September 25,2007
Page 5 of 5
RESOLVED to approve the contract with Debbie Bertling at a rate of $20.00 an
hour for services provided regarding transcribing/typing the Minutes of the General
Employees' Pension Board Meetings.
AGENDA ITEM III. ADJUORN
There being no other business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:50 0.m.
Respectfully submitted by App d by:
Debbie Bertling
HR Analyst Russ Wagner, Ch irman