HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-22-08 Workshop
CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP
RE: CROWN POINT PROPERTY
Ocoee Commission Chambers Conference Room
150 North Lakeshore Drive
Ocoee, Florida
January 22, 2008
I CALL TO ORDER
MINUTES
6 :30 p.m.
Mayor Vandergrift called the work session to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of
City Hall. City Clerk Eikenberry called roll and declared a quorum present.
Roll Call: Commissioner Hood, Commissioner Anderson, Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioner
Keller, and Commissioner Johnson.
Also Present: City Attorney Rosenthal, City Manager Frank, City Clerk Eikenberry, Assistant
City Manager Croteau, Community Development Director Wagner, Bill Owens of Real Estate
Research Consultants
I DISCUSSION RE: CROWN POINT PROPERTY.
Community Development Director Wagner said that that when the Centex sale fell through a
few months ago the Commission requested workshop to discuss what to do with the Crown
property. He introduced Bill Owens of Real Estate Research Consultants, who was one of the
original consultants for the property and the northwest sector study. He advised he is here to
give an overview of what is going on in the marketplace and what the best use may be for the
property in the future. Commissioner Anderson asked a question about the colored areas on the
map that was displayed. Community Development Director Wagner reviewed the map points
and ownership of various tracts in the area of the Crown Point Property.
Bill Owens said, when they looked at potential uses for this property back in 2001, the idea of
Commercial development in this area was pretty far out; the high school was being built, the 429
was just getting under construction, and the area was predominantly residential. At that time,
they felt that commercial opportunity was going to be on the main road and they had envisioned
redevelopment opportunities and office parks, etc. When they sat down with planners and
looked at different scenarios for land uses, they were geared to slow the emphasis toward trying
to create jobs or slow the emphasis toward residential infill and new development. The horizon
year for that plan was the year 2020 and they figured the residential units would develop at about
1000 units per year. Currently, it has developed at a rate of 2000 units per year, but it will soon
slow down and average out at about 1000-1500 units per year.
Mr. Owens said the Northwest Study Area would need to allow about 60-100 acres of
retail/office development and probably another 200 acres of industrial business type uses. He
said they have worked with several development projects in the general part of West Orange
County and Lake County are familiar with what is going on. In terms of market analysis, it is
pretty systematic; first, we look at the dynamics of growth; second, where is competition going
and what are the patterns; and third, how does the property fit in that competitive environment
and can it compete with the demand in the area. He expressed that Ocoee has been seeing a
transformation in the past eight to ten years, as a result of its commute access, and it has been put
on the map as a destination. Recently, the commercial maps show about a million square feet of
projects identified within the next three years. On the residential side, about 2500-3500
residential units are proposed within Ocoee in the next three years. His opinion was that it is an
appropriate time to consider marketing some of this commercial property. He stated that, despite
the current housing down turn, the corridor is well positioned for residential development.
Bill Owens stated that the Fountains West property is under construction nearby and developers
will be coming to that area looking for retail pieces where they piggy-back on the momentum of
Fountains West. He said that some of the commercial pieces are well located and will capitalize
on out-parcel developments such as a drug store, muffler shop, bank, etc. He asked them to keep
in mind that the major portion of commercial development is being drawn toward Fowler Groves
and the Highway 50 connection, so the large scale commercial stuff is not moving in that
direction.
Mr. Owen said, according to his studies, his view is that Fountains West will soak up most of
the impending neighborhood-type commercial demand in the next three years. There will be
many opportunities around to pick up smaller focused commercial and now is a good time to sell
or lease the commercial property. He thought the mentality is constraining the market downward
and he did not feel that was fundamentally supported by the economics; it may take a little
longer than anticipated, but he felt it would be worth it to position that project for when the
market turns back around.
Commissioner Anderson asked at what point they would break even, compared to what they
have spent. City Manager Frank explained their costs on the property thus far. City Attorney
Rosenthal stated it was not a question that the City would recover what they have put into it. He
said they just need to decide what to do with it to maximize profit or tax base.
Bill Owens stated that properties make quantum jumps in value, whereas it is bought raw and
then it is rezoned to jump in value again. Next, it proceeds to be engineered, platted, drainage is
handled, etc. and it can be sold at another jump in value. He stated that Ocoee has already met
the first benchmark and the next step is the engineering.
Commissioner Johnson said he thought they were going to decide what to do with the property.
Bill Owens suggested they do a Request for Proposals or Letters of Interest on any parcels they
want to sell to see what they receive that meets their goals and objectives. Commissioner
Johnson inquired about a government service center proposal, whereas City and Government
have ajoint facility with schools and such. Mr. Owens agreed that was a good idea.
Commissioner Anderson inquired about moving forward with the Centex proposal, which
would give them the tax base. Commissioner Keller asked what concurrency would do to them
next year. City Manager Frank said the property has concurrency. City Attorney Rosenthal
stated they were vested under school concurrency as a pre-existing or pre-approved project
because there was already a subdivision plan associated with it. He added that the vested rights
determination would be made by the local government, the City of Ocoee, and they have
concluded this property is a vested project. Commissioner Hood said the Centex property would
not bring as much money as the developers.
Community Development Director Russ Wagner said they could have it all platted and do the
final engineering to have it ready to sell; however, that would be a risk of spending more money
out of their pocket. He said they could actually sell that land for more money per acre for an
apartment project than they can commercial and they could sell parcel #9 today for $6 million.
Commissioner Hood inquired as to what would happen if they did the platting and a developer
wants to change the way they did it. Community Development Director Wagner explained
the basic standard lots and said they could probably hit 80% of the market if they platted it and it
would be lower density.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated they could spend money on final engineering and getting a plat
approved; however, if they start to make improvements at this point they are at risk. Community
Developer Director Wagner commented that he was blown away when they opened up the bid
and three major national home builders all wanted the same spot and saw the value of the
location.
Commissioner Keller said they could not afford improvements on the land right now.
Community Development Director Wagner explained many ways to reduce final cost to
expedite sale. City Attorney Rosenthal suggested closing quicker the next time.
Mayor Vandergrift said that a RFQ would not hurt and asked about going in jointly with a
developer. He said money was not the only issue. He discussed a new mall coming to Clermont,
an office park like Maitland Center, Mall/Education Center going up, and other ideas that
everyone could use that might make Ocoee special.
Commissioner Hood said the county would need to work with them because they would need to
rebuild Ocoee-Apopka Road for commercial development. He thought they should hire
somebody to send out the Mayor's ideas and start shopping around. Mayor Vandergrift was
concerned about that big piece of property around the lake and how great that location was.
Commissioner Anderson thought that the area of the Auto Auction would be great for a
Commerce Center and wondered if they auction would still be there in twenty years.
Mayor Vandergrift asked what they would ask for in the RFP. Mr. Owens said his firm does
about six of those per year and they can have specific requirements and limitations. He said
there is a process that they can set up evaluation criteria and screen the proposals, then talk to
only the ones who are in-line with what they want for that area. He added that they could add a
disclaimer to all RFP's to cover legal issues. City Manager Frank said they first have to put
out an RFQ to find companies to put together an RFP. Mr. Owens explained the RFP process in
further detail.
Mayor Vandergrift went around the room asking what each Commissioner desired to see in that
area:
. Commissioner Anderson - incorporate the wetland or green area / recreational.
. Commissioner Hood - something similar to Baldwin Park with mixed use with more
recreational area; more Commercial along the 429 by building vertical. Vertical
building would require more firefighters and apparatus.
. Commissioner Keller - mixed use recreation with light commercial (professional
offices); some High-Tech such as what AAA did for Heathrow.
. Commissioner Johnson - mixed use, less residential and more business.
. City Manager Frank - mixed use via RFP that includes all parcels.
u__J
City Attorney Rosenthal gave a word of caution that anything they do that deviates from the
plan, would most likely require a large scale comprehensive plan amendment approved by DCA,
and would require Orange County approval for change in the Joint Planning Area Agreement.
Additionally, it would trigger with DCA on all of the traffic concurrency issues. Mayor
Vandergrift said if we go from residential to commercial it should lessen the impact on traffic
and other issues so it shouldn't be a problem.
Bill Owens clarified that if they prefer to go through an RFP, you don't obligate yourself to
changing anything in the Plan; you can't wait to see how exciting the proposals are. That is the
beauty of being the City going out for RFT; you own the entire playing field until they were
ready to pick teams.
Commissioner Anderson asked if we had any reason to want to acquire bus stop terminals.
City Attorney Rosenthal explained the process with the School Board during the dealings with
the Centex people. He said even if that is not the highest use for that land, if the School Board
still needs to put the buses there and has no other alternatives, it is valuable to them for that
reason.
Bill Owens said his company could put a proposal together for City Commission to review. He
stated they would go as far as helping the City negotiate with a developer or a field of
developers, all the way to the point of signing; however, they would not solicit people for the
City. He said they have a target list to go to, both locally and nationally, and the City would rely
on their experience to advertise right market. He added that they are doing a similar project for
Ashville at this time. Mayor Vandergrift said it seems that we are looking for RFP responses
that are visionary in nature. Mr. Owens said that there are eight parcels to include in the RFP
and we would ask for their reaction to all of them; if someone wants to put a Maitland Center in
there, and it makes sense, the City would look hard at that option.
Commissioner Hood asked about bringing a marketing person into the City for commercial
growth. City Manager Frank said, for the past two years, they had discussed that position
being combined with the CRA; however, he did not feel they would have enough to keep them
busy at this time. Commissioner Hood said he thought they needed someone to look at every
piece of commercial property in the City, not just the Crown Point property. He felt that the
neighboring cities were growing rapidly and, if they waited any longer to do something, then
there would not be any commercial developers left to come here.
Discussion followed regarding various combinations of mixed use, the existing uses in the area,
how to make Ocoee special. Commissioner Hood believed that a high-tech and educational area
coming in would make the area really special; they need to get someone in there who knows
what they are doing as far as marketing and getting commercial business to come in. He added
that we need to do whatever it takes to get new business in here. Discussion ensued regarding
current growth trends and the need for having an Economic Development person on staff.
Commissioner Hood said we should look to see if there is enough market demand to put
someone on staff.
City Manager Frank suggested doing an RFQ for a firm to do what Commissioner Hood
recommended and make it a 3-6 month effort. Mayor Vandergrift stated the problem was
coming up the money to pay for such a firm and mentioned that Winter Garden used funds from
the CRA, and also grants are possible.
Commissioner Anderson asked if they had a projection if the Amendment #1 passes, what loss
of revenue would occur for Ocoee. City Manager Frank said it is difficult to predict because we
don't know how many people will move and take their homestead exemption with them, but he
would guess approximately $500,000 - $750,000 just for the loss of the additional $25,000
homestead exemption ad.
Mr. Owens said they are dealing with many issues that he has 35 years of experience with. He
asked for permission to bring something back to Commission that would make sense to them.
The consensus of the Commission was to have Mr. Owens of Real Estate
Research Consultants draft a proposal and bring it back to them.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 7:56 p.m.
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S. Scott Vandergrift, Mayor