Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutItem #01 Approval of Minutes MINUTES SPECIAL SESSION - EVANS HIGH SCHOOL March 26, 2008, at 6:00 P.M. I A. CALL TO ORDER Mayor Vandergrift called the Special Session of the City Commission to order at 6:00 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of City Hall. Commissioner Keller gave the Invocation and Commissioner Hood led the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. City Clerk Eikenberry called roll and declared a quorum present. Roll Call: Commissioner Hood, Commissioner Anderson, Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioner Keller, and Commissioner Johnson. Also Present: City Attorney Rosenthal, City Manager Frank, City Clerk Eikenberry DISCUSSION: NEW DEVELOPMENTS REGARDING THE PROPOSED MOVE OF EVANS HIGH SCHOOL Mayor Vandergrift acknowledged the following members of the audience: Boy Scout Troop #145 working on their civics badge, Orange County School Board Member Jim Martin, Pine Hills Press, Channel 37, Orlando Sentinel, and Laura Keller, candidate for school board. Mayor Vandergrift gave some history on the Evans School issue. He said approximately four years ago the School Board explained to everyone what they were going to do with their taxes and one of those things was $22,000,000 to rebuild Evans High School. Since that time, it has taken a quantum leap to moving the school and spending $70,000,000 - $80,000,000 to build it. He said he questions that logic because there are so many other schools that need the dollars. He added that they had to know that the land they purchased was in a Rural Settlement District; it was done in a secretive fashion when it was done 3-4 years ago. They should have started the rezoning process back then, but now they are blaming everyone else for holding up their process. We feel certain that once Evans High School is moved, it will be rezoned. This has been a flat denial on the part of the School Board all through the process, until a meeting of the Orange County Planning and Zoning meeting where an attorney admitted that it will probably be rezoned within 1 Y2 years from the time it is established. We believe it is being done to improve the FCA T grade of the school, which is not a good reason to do it. Mayor Vandergrift continued stating that one of the reasons the School Board is saying the move is necessary is that there is crime in Pine Hills, but the children that would be bussed out of Pine Hills to the new school will still have to return to their homes in the same neighborhood. It would be a better solution to solve the crime problem than to move the high school. He said if the Pine Hills citizens were given the opportunity to choose a NEW school at the current site, or a NEW school in the Rural Settlement District three miles away, they would choose to leave it where it is currently located. He explained that the latest development was that the Orange County Commission upheld the plea of the residents of the Rural Settlement District by voting not to allow the school to be built there. The Orange County School Board then came back with another plan to build a 2700-pupil school on 25 acres, when the standard is 55-60 acres. The current Evans site is 43 acres, but there is land available around it where they could gain another 10 to 15 acres, similar to what they are doing with Edgewater. According to Orlando Sentinel, that plan has been agreed upon by the County and School Board at a staff level, but it has not been voted on by any Elected Officials. We need to be a part of it as far as what is going to happen to our community, as well as Winter Garden and Apopka. The demeanor of the School Board and their staff is that the residents and school officials don't have a choice. In community meetings, the people from the Rural Settlement District were denied the right to speak. He noted that it is the worst kind of government he has seen in a long time. 6:00 p.m. - 6:55 p.m. Discussion with School Board member Jim Martin Jim Martin, School Board Member, said in May of 2005 the school board staff proposed the purchase of 41 acres on the north side of the Ninth Grade Center. The property was purchased and identified as a relief school. At that time the county was in a building boom, which has since leveled off since then. The following summer the Board was identifying issues at the Evans Campus and looking at ways to provide those students with an educational facility that was equal to the others in the county. When you try to rebuild a school on a campus that is occupied with students, you have to phase the construction. This is a disruptive process for the contractors and the students and takes a long time. They decided it would be quicker to build the relief school first and then rebuild the existing campus once students were moved off. They are currently experiencing a brain drain, or flight out of Evans because kids do not want to go there. It is causing overcrowding in surrounding schools. The desegregation court order allows minority students to transfer out to schools that are not minority schools. This has happened a lot and does not account for those using false addresses to go to other schools. The other reason for transfers is because Evans has been an "F" rated school for several years, and under opportunity scholarships the state allows students to transfer. Mr. Martin said they have not ever, on any occasion, talked about rezoning Evans to bring in more kids from Ocoee. We have gotten out of "F" schools by hard work and good teachers and not by moving kids around. He said we have not and will not use rezoning as a way of fixing schools; what we have is not failing schools, it is failing students, and we need to fix that problem. QUESTIONS FROM COMMMISSION: Commissioner Keller said that the notion that they are moving the kids to the "relief campus" in order to rebuild Evans has never been mentioned at any of the community meetings. It does not appear to be in the School Boards plans in the future; the only talk discussion he has heard is "what are we going to do" with the current Evans campus and the possibility of a family center or something similar. He understands that rezoning is not the correct way to fix an "F" grade, but it is the easy way to accomplish it and if the school moves, he feels the zoning will also move all the way east to Clarke Road or further, possibly to the Lake Olympia area. Mr. Martin said in 2007 at the community meetings they discussed how to get Evans back on track and make it a good facility. People from the community wanted to turn it into everything other than an educational facility, but he and Karen Ardamen said that was not the intent of the Board. He said to clarify what was said about the zoning, when the ninth grade center is turned into a high school, there will be no redrawing of zones. However, as a relief school, when both schools have been reopened, there may be some anticipation of rezoning. There are no funds for the rebuild so you cannot expect that to happen within the next ten years. As the school improves and kids start coming back, we don't want to create an overcrowding situation by widening the attendance zones. Commissioner Keller said he doesn't see that many students coming back once a school is built. He added that the best scenario would be to move the Evans kids to the Ninth Grade Center and rebuild Evans in place. The plan for the new site would fit on the existing campus and you wouldn't have to bus students, athletes, and band to use sporting facilities. You are taking parking spaces away at the same time you are increasing the number of students that will have to drive to school because they are no longer walking distance. The School Board is talking a lot about giving Evans kids a school that is equal to others in the county, but what they are proposing is a substandard school just to get it in on this particular property. He said this is the wrong solution. He said he thinks before you get the flight back, the board should build the new school in the center of the community where it belongs; where we now have the Boys and Girls Club returning to help improve the area. This would be much better for everyone involved. When it is time to build a new school, use that land to build a smaller school, such as a middle school. Mr. Martin said there is a plan to build a new middle school on Ingram Road. He said they have six other middle and elementary schools in rural settlements so the Board was not aware there would be an issue with placing a high school in a rural settlement. The Ingram Road middle School site has room for a middle school and elementary school. There is an elementary school site on Hackney Prairie Road (also a rural settlement) and he has proposed that it be moved to cohabitate the Ingram Road site. Mayor Vandergrift asked if he is aware there is an elementary school site across from the high school. Mr. Martin said that new law with respect to class size reduction (by 20%) is causing them to have to build 31 new schools without adding a single student, so they are building schools as fast as they can. He said they are thankful growth has slowed down to give them a chance to catch up on construction projects. He added that he feels the existing Evans campus is ideally located for the proximity of students who attend; if you look at a scatter chart; it is not an either/or situation, they need to get those kids into a good school. Mayor Vandergrift said he is in the minority with regards to his thoughts on the location of Evans. Mr. Martin said he keeps trying to remind Board members at every occasion of what they voted in the past, because there are some Board members who have their own vision on things that are not consistent with what the board voted on, which is a relief school being built prior to the rebuild of the existing campus. Commissioner Hood asked for clarification that the Ninth Grade Center would be temporary structure and then Evans would be rebuilt on the current campus. Mr. Martin said what is being proposed is to go vertical and build with a smaller foot print on the smaller property. It has been done at Apopka High School. He said with land becoming less and less available, you will be seeing that happening a lot more. Commissioner Hood asked when the vote will occur on this property and when the public hearing will take place. Mr. Martin said he is not aware of any scheduled meetings. He said they own the Ninth Grade Center and at a workshop there was discussion about moving forward with building the relief school and dealing with the other aspects regarding the athletic fields. He gave examples of other schools that use offsite facilities for the sporting activities. Commissioner Hood asked about approval that will be needed from Orange County and if there will be no more public meetings on this. Mr. Martin said it is his understanding the County will have to approve the smaller size of 25 acres which is smaller than the county standard for schools, but he does not anticipate any hold up with that approval. Commissioner Keller asked with regard to the desegregation issue, can we go back to court and ask for that to be overturned based on new rulings from the Supreme Court last year. Mr. Martin said the order covers transportation, school facilities, opportunities, equal staffing levels as far as certifications and qualifications, etc. He said they have met all of those criteria with the exception of the building program. He feels once they present their building plan to the court, they will be granted a unitary status. Commissioner Johnson spoke about the having community schools staying in their local area, that is why we fought for Ocoee High School. Looking at Edgewater one can see how they are displacing people from their trailer homes in order to keep the school where it is, but Evans is being moved out of the community. He does not think the community is in favor of this but the community is not organizing enough to express that opinion. The City of Ocoee is fighting it because we are on the fringes of these school zones. The school is being moved because of the determination of the Board to use that property in the rural settlement district; they could handle issues regarding acreage and crime and stay right where they are instead of tearing the heart out of the Pine Hills community. The School Board could buy the property around Evans for much cheaper than what they paid for the land around Edgewater. As far as crime issues, you have to fight the crime, too, not just move students away. The school did not get in bad shape overnight, the Board needs to build that school back up to where it should be. Mr. Martin said he supported naming the new school Ocoee High School because he thinks schools are successful when the community rallies around it. He said he agrees that Evans needs to be where it is. He looks forward to the time it is rebuilt in that location, but what they are currently proposing is the quickest way to do the right thing for the students. There was discussion regarding the Edgewater project. Mr. Martin added that Pine Hills as a whole has a crime problem and it is unfortunate that kids that don't belong on that campus are able to get in there and cause problems. He thinks the community should be more outraged that the Orange County Sheriff s Office for not resolving all of these crime issues. Commissioner Anderson noted the School Board keeps talking about a relief school, but does not ever talk about a projected date for rebuilding Evans. Mr. Martin said there is nothing budgeted in the next ten years; what is being used to build the new campus is what was identified through the sales tax to rebuild the Evans campus; that is why it is being referred to as a replacement campus. They are doing everything on that list of items that voters approved several years ago when the sales tax was increased, with the exception of some Ninth Grade Centers. They have since found that Ninth Grade Centers are not as productive as they thought, because the ninth graders need to be involved with things at the main campus. Commissioner Anderson asked if there is no money, than this is just a wish to rebuild the Evans Campus. Mr. Martin said it is not a wish; it is was something that was voted on. Commissioner Anderson asked about the purchase of the property, is it in the minutes that it was planned to use it as a relief school? Mr. Martin said the May 10, 2005 minutes will show the item as the purchase of additional property for Evans Relief School. Commissioner Anderson asked if they will consider using the additional acreage on the new property as sporting facilities in the future or do they always plan to use the fields at the existing Evans campus. Mr. Martin said his term is up in November, he cannot say what future Boards will do. He advised that right now the plan is to use the existing campus stadium for big games, but when the full campus is rebuilt at the current Evans site the Board will have to address it. He added that at a recent meeting the Board discussed the finances of various alternatives and one of the scenarios was that a stadium or football field could be built in the rural settlement district with buffering from the neighborhoods. Commissioner Anderson said this is your legacy and Mr. Blocker's legacy; do you want your legacy to be that you built a relief school with no future plans to do anything else? He added that it sounds like a bridge to nowhere. Commissioner Johnson said another scenario would be similar to what was done at Jones High School where the sporting fields were tom down and the school was rebuilt, then they removed the old school buildings and built new field. He does not understand why the Board can't see how much easier that would be. Mr. Martin said originally when the Ninth Grade Center was going to be built, that was considered, but it was cheaper and faster to build the relief site. 6:55 D.m. -7:24 D.m. Public Forum Bill Hoelscher, 604 Robert's Rise Drive, said he was disappointed that a one hour meeting was called for the residents and School Board Member Martin was given 55 minutes to talk. He said there have been so many different discussions on this issue it is difficult to know what is going on. He felt Evans will move even though it ought to be rebuilt on the present campus, and then you will have an "F" rated school with a busing problem because they will have to take them back and forth to their sporting facilities. He said then they will rezone because, by one of their own rules, the school should be in the center of the district; then Ocoee kids will go to the "F" school and be bussed to Pine Hills for sports. The School Board is complaining that there is only room for 1700 students at Evans, but he feels that if they cannot teach 1 700 kids; how will they ever teach 2700 at a new campus? He said he is concerned they are not going to smarten up the 1700 current students, they are going to dumb down 1000 students that will be rezoned to an "F" school. Commissioner Anderson asked if the "F" rating will stay with the school if it moves to the new location and becomes a relief school. Mayor Vandergrift said their have been many conflicting conversations on that. William Burrell, 1633 North Hudson Street, Pine Hills, said he has been paying attention to this issue since December. He said there should have been more notification given to the people in Pine Hills and the Rural Settlement District, and the people of Pine Hills should have been allowed to vote on this. The School Board should educate all children, not just some of them. If you look on their web site and look at the improvement plans for all the schools you will find there is a vast difference between Evans, Edgewater, Colonial, and the other High Schools. He said there has been a lot of finger pointing and name calling, but the truth is the residents did not fail Evans, the School Board and the County failed Evans. They should rebuild right on that campus and continue the 50 years of history. He said they should not use crime as an excuse because the campus could be made safe. Moving it will not make it an A school, they can strip it down to the walls and rebuild as they have done successfully with other schools. Ed Masika, 5221 North Apopka Vineland Road, President of the Clarcona Improvement Association, said if this new building was approved right now, it will take two years to complete which will leave the kids in the current school with mold on the walls, leaking ceilings, and no technology because the School Board won't put any more money into the current campus; this is an atrocity. The court order mentioned by Board Member Martin which allows kids to leave a poorly performing school on the voucher system. This system, "No Child Left Behind" will not be funded next year when Bush is out of office because people have realized that you can't just teach kids how to pass an FCAT, you have to teach them how to succeed in lift. A Supreme Court decision was made that you cannot use race as a determination for where schools are going to be placed; neighborhoods will constantly change and you can't keep trying to balance the schools by moving schools or moving students (rezoning). The current plan will cause more problems with transportation and parking because kids will be farther away. The question was raised as to where the parents of Pine Hills are. Mr. Masika said many of them are lying about their address so their kids can go to other schools and they don't want to be exposed during this process. Commissioner Johnson said there are still 1700 students attending Evans. Mr. Masika said many of those parents were told that this was a "done deal" and they just accepted that. He added that the School Board withdrew a large sum of money from the investment fund when they became concerned that the fund was heavily invested in mortgages and we don't know where that money went. They can also still use the Y2 penny sales tax. That money should be put into Evans right now. At this time they do not have plans for the newly proposed 25-acre campus, only an artist rendering. He discussed the feasibility of other possible sites that were discussed by the School Board. He discussed crime in the area and said it would not be difficult to mend the fence at the school. Furthermore, he said the School Board is stating that the High School needs to move to a safer location because of crime in a specific radius and yet there are two or three elementary schools in that same area. Mayor Vandergrift said that a red pole with a police emergency button has been installed at Edgewater, but nothing at Evans. If crime is so bad at Evans, why have they not given those students the same consideration? Mr. Masika closed by saying that Principal Christiansen had no on-school campus crime statistics, only the area around the school, which is where the kids will be bussed back and forth to. He said if this was any other government building with mold and water leaks, etc., they would evacuate the building and fix the horrible conditions on an emergency basis. He said Superintendent Blocker stated at the meeting last night that the County and School Board had been working on a plan to build the school on 25 acres and recommended that the Chairman asked for a motion to withdraw any legal action against the County. He said there was no motion; they just had a "consensus" of the board. Mayor Vandergrift noted that at one point the Chair just asked for a head nod and said the vote was unanimous. There was additional discussion whether the School Board would have to start the approval process all over again for the new proposed school. Mr. Masika said it will be better this time around because they are all away of what is going on and nothing can be done without their knowledge and experience. He told everyone to stay involved and keep communications open. His Clarcona Rural Settlement has 1600 residents and they have been meeting and acknowledging support for this issue and for William Burrell of Pine Hills. The Economic Development Committee of Pine Hills did a study with a $35,000 grant, which broke Pine Hills into four quarters at the intersection of Pine Hills and Silver Star Roads, and the cornerstone of the NE comer was Evans High School. The ~ penny sales tax was approved by voters with $22,000,000 going to rebuild Evans at its current location. He said if there is anything that can be done to rebuild the school where it is they will strive to get that done because it is the right thing to do for the community and for the kids. Hoelscher, asked why Mr. Masika thought the process had to start over when School Board member Martin said they do not need approval from the County. Mr. Masika said that was also printed in the Orlando Sentinel, but according to the County, the approval process starts over with a new site. Mr. Hoelscher said that people should know that they bussed students in early and staged a sit-in to keep the tax payers out. This proves they are not interested in hearing what their constituents have to say. Mayor Vandergrift said they also refused to get up and move when other hearings were being held prior to the Evans issue. It is a shame that they used the children as pawns. Mayor Vandergrift said he talked to City Attorney Rosenthal earlier today to see what this Commission could do and what would assure us a seat at the table when we are talking about these issues and assure us an audience. There is a Florida Governmental Conflict Resolution process in the Florida Statutes; it is what the School Board is presently doing to Orange County. He would like the commission to consider having our attorney draw up this type of resolution to be adopted at the next meeting. It basically says that we are prepared to sue you, but we would like to sit down and negotiate first. City Attorney Rosenthal said there is an act of the Florida Legislature in Chapter 164 of the Florida Statutes which sets forth a procedure for resolving conflict between government entities. Typically, the context of the procedure is a pre-lawsuit (not files) type settlement or you would file a lawsuit and go through this procedure before you can proceed. He sees nothing that expressly says you would have to file a lawsuit in order to use this procedure. You would need to adopt a conflict resolution which identifies the conflict, sets the specific issues that you want to address, and identifies the governmental bodies that it would be applied to and the resolution is sent to them. The first step is a Conflict Assessment Meeting, at staff level-not elected officials, which requires that the Chief Administrator or his designee, meet with an administrative staff person on the other side, to come up with a solution to the conflict that is identified in the Conflict Resolution. If this process is not successful, there is a specific time frame in which a joint public meeting of the governmental bodies where that process is discussed and an attempt to resolve the conflict is made. If that does not work, there is a procedure to go to mediation with a professional mediator. If the mediation process is unsuccessful, than the governmental body that initiated the conflict resolution can go forward with the lawsuit or the filing of the lawsuit. Mr. Rosenthal advised the Commission if they want to follow this procedure, it would have to be discussed tonight, because it required that there is a letter that states the conflict, the other governmental entities in conflict with the initiating governmental entity (Ocoee), the justification for initiating the Conflict Resolution process, and the proposed date and location of the Conflict Assessment Meeting, and the suggestions regarding the Officials who should be present at the Conflict Assessment Meeting. He said if the Commission wants to have the resolution prepared, he would need direction on those items for inclusion in the letter and in the Conflict Resolution. Commissioner Anderson asked what the conflict is going to be. City Attorney Rosenthal said the areas of conflict would need to be identified by the elected body (Commission), as well as which entities you want to address that conflict to. Mayor Vandergrift asked the Commission to be thinking about that while he continued to take comments from those in the audience. Katrina Bush, Pine Hills Community Council, she asked everyone to picture the 4-5 square miles of Pine Hills (Pine Hills Road, Powers Drive, Hiawassee Road, and Apopka Vineland Road). There is a population of 80,000 - 90,000. She said they are a large unincorporated area Orange County. She said Evans is on the city limits of the City of Orlando and we are attempting to move the school to the west side of Pine Hills. She says Pine Hills has always had a perception problem. Consider what it is like for a parent to want to send their kids to Evans at Pine Hills and Silver Star. That is our issue, we have suffered from economic flight, the best students have been lost to surrounding high schools and they want them back. They want to move the school and get the kids back. She said she speaks on behalf of neighborhood leaders, association presidents, etc. who want the school to move. She said they have over 1,000 petitions. Mayor Vandergrift said if you were to survey everyone and ask if they want a NEW school four miles away or a NEW school in the current location, what to you think they would vote? She said she believes they would vote to move. What has changed since the economic development survey said that quadrant should be and educational quadrant based around Evans? She said the school received another "F" and there has been a huge upsurge in violent crime. Mayor Vandergrift said bussing kids to school and then back to their neighborhoods would not resolve any issues. She added that there would be the same numbers of kids walking to the new school as there are walking to the current campus. Several members of the Commission and audience exhibited signs of disagreement. Mr. Hoelscher asked if she was saying that students cannot learn at the current campus. Ms. Bush said no, she is saying parents are refusing to send their children there. She added that her fear is that they will completely lose their community high school with all this fighting going on. Steve Elder, 863 Lancer Circle, Ocoee, said education is a key factor to getting rid of crime; keep the school, raise it 3 or 4 floors, teach them and the crime problem can go away. William Burrell said that there should have been a vote in Pine Hills with regard to Evans High School. The School Board is not interested in the public opinion to have community based schools and to work on improving it with new buildings, state of the art materials. Laura Keller said she has worked with band programs at two schools; she thinks there will be a transportation issue with bussing the band back and forth to the old field if this plan is followed through. She said the Board says they want these kids to have "equal" opportunities, but they are giving them a smaller school and a smaller campus with not sports fields. She said she is so aggravated with the way things have been handled that she is running for the seat on the school board. Mayor Vandergrift read the race demographics at Ocoee High School; 38% White, 40% Black, 15% Hispanic, 5% Asian, and 1 % Native Americans. He said the key is that they are 100% Americans. Commissioner Keller said they need to move the students that are currently there to the ninth grade center and rebuild Evans High School. If they only have the money to build one school in the next ten years, it should be to rebuild Evans at its current location. He discussed how children will be sent to three different schools and it will raise the "F" grade. He said if they want to split them up in that manner they could do what Olympia did and add a $7,000,000 permanent structure to three different schools and only spend $21,000,000 instead of $85,000,000. He said it will be difficult to keep the School Board from rezoning in the future. He advised as far as the letter for the Conflict Resolution, he feels it should go to Orange County School Board and the Orange County Commission. The issue would have to be the size of the property, because it is against state and county rules and they are doing a disservice to the students. He feels the resolution to the problem would be to move the students that are currently there to the ninth grade center and rebuild Evans High School at its current location. A brand new school would encourage kids to stay at there own campus and improve their school grade instead of watering down the F grade by splitting up the students. Commissioner Anderson said he thinks they are positioning themselves to say that the City of Ocoee is not happy with anything they come up with and have already rejected Plan A and Plan B, so we just want to go back to Plan A. Commissioner Keller said we are offering a Plan C, that is a better Plan than A and B. They already have an existing area that will house a new school in a way that saves money and is right for the community. The community has focus groups that will get together to lift that area up and try to reduce crime. The Boys and Girls Club has committed to building in that area to give the kids an alternative to being in the streets. Commissioner Anderson said he believes they will never build this school (Plan B) if it gets approved. Commissioner Keller said he believes they will do it to prove that we can get around the vote from the County Commission and stick with their original decision. Mayor Vandergrift said at a workshop they also discussed no ball fields on the campus, or putting fields on the eastern most side of the rural settlement district. As long as the school is built on the 25 acres, there is always the potential that they will build fields at a later time. Commissioner Keller said he does not think it is a good idea to suggest a high school ever go on that site under any conditions. If you make the Conflict Resolution to keep the school where it is now, place students at the ninth grade center temporarily where there they will have a viable school, and then ten years from now when they revisit that site, they can put a middle school on the 25 acres and it is sufficient land to do that. City Attorney Rosenthal asked for direction as to whom the letter should be addressed. Consensus of the Commission was that it should addressed Orange County School Board and the County Commission and identified the City Manager as the Official from the City of Ocoee who should be present at the Conflict Assessment and he can bring the information back to the Commission for consideration. Commissioner Keller. seconded by Commissioner Hood, moved to direct City Attorney Rosenthal to brina the Conflict Resolution with respect to the Evans HiQh School back to the next Commission MeetinQ for consideration. Motion carried 5-0. Commissioner Keller added that with regard to the residents' disappointment of allowing School Board Member Martin talk for so long, we are not like the School Board, we allow everyone to give their point of view. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Attest: APPROVED: City of Ocoee Beth Eikenberry, City Clerk S. Scott Vandergrift, Mayor MINUTES OCOEE CITY COMMISSION April 17, 2008, at 6:30 P.M. CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - CHARTER SCHOOLS CALL TO ORDER I I. Mayor Vandergrift called the regular session to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of City Hall. Commissioner Anderson gave the Invocation and Commissioner Hood led the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. City Clerk Eikenberry called roll and declared a quorum present. Roll Call: Commissioner Hood, Commissioner Anderson, Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioner Keller, and Commissioner Johnson (absent). Also Present: City Manager Frank, City Clerk Eikenberry I II. DISCUSSION WITH RICHARD PAGE FROM CHARTER SCHOOLS USA Richard Page of Charter Schools USA (CSUSA) introduced Derek Kellmanson, from his company. He said the last thing that was done was a feasibility study, community survey, and there is a summary of the findings and recommendations in the report that has been placed on the dais. He stated, in looking at the options between a Conversion Charter School and a Start Up Charter School; the last time we spoke about this the feeling was that the Conversion, whether that be a community based or a municipal based initiative, would be a more viable option based on the information in the survey. He said the survey also showed a start up of a K-8 would have some merit, but required more detailed examination. Mr. Page said the Commission felt there should be some conversation with the School District to began discussions regarding their thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of the City or the barriers the City may face. He said organizational issues were discussed, such as what the governance would be; will the schools be run by a private foundation or the municipality? Mr. Page advised on February 14, 2008, he and Derek Kellmanson met with Dr. Evelyn Chandler from Orange County Public Schools, Director of Student Choice, and received some direction as a result of that meeting. He advised that with the conversion process, if the majority of faculty and parents agree to the conversion, the District will not get in the way. It would go to the county board for approval, but would not need to go through the district office as a new start up charter school would. In Lake Wales, the charter system kept the school zoning the same as the public school zoning after the conversion, with the opportunity for those who wanted to opt out of the Charter School and remain in the Public School System. He said they were given the indication that Orange County would not likely do that; they would rezone all of the students to other schools. Instead of being an opt-out model, it would be an opt-in model. The conversation regarding a start up school was that they would welcome an application by anyone and that Ocoee will not be treated any differently than anyone else. They stated they will be rigorous in their technical review and hold the high standard that they hold for approval of charter schools. Mr. Page said that he since met with the Mayor and City Manager to brief them on that meeting and they are waiting for further direction. He said that the city needs to go through the process of determining governance. Commissioner Anderson said it looks like we are looking at a conversion. He asked if there would be a geographical location for opting in to a new Charter School. Mr. Page said the students would get rezoned to the next closest public school, but they would all be given the opportunity to attend the Charter School depending on how you set up the model. You would probably set it up so that residents would have enrollment preference, although it could be open to all of Orange County students. Commissioner Anderson said public schools can overcrowd, but a charter would be limited to a specific amount. Mr. Page said with a conversion, you would set the capacity at what it currently is. Mayor Vandergrift said his suggestion was to accept all kids who are within the Orange County School District and over a four year period, those children who were outside of the City could be replaced with residents once they graduate or there could be a lottery to determine who could get in. The bottom line is that parents and children are given a choice about whether or not they wish to attend the Charter School. Commissioner Keller said he understood that there has to be something unique about the school to get Charter status, is trying to accomplish "community schools" enough to get a Charter? Mr. Page said that was enough. Mayor Vandergrift said we will probably have to say that we can meet or exceed the current educational standards of the Public School District. Commissioner Keller said he does not want to see them forcing us to accept other students that meet some guideline for a Charter School and then current students being kicked out; that is why he is asking about negotiating to an overcrowded school. Will the Charter School be able to keep the portables there and overcrowd, or can they restrict attendance to a certain number? Commissioner Anderson said schools in other countries are open many more days than the 180 curriculum offered here. He thought maybe Ocoee should consider year-round schools, six day weeks, or other options. Mayor Vandergrift said once the school is charter we may be able to consider different options, but trying to do that from the start would make the vote to support a Charter School fail. Commissioner Keller said that idea already failed miserably because families had different kids going at different days and times. Mayor Vandergrift said to answer Commissioner Keller's earlier question, number of students is also a negotiable item, right now Orange County has about 800 students in elementary schools when 600 is a more appropriate number. Commissioner Hood said our next step is to get a qualified vote process that we can present to Orange County and asked how long that would take. Mr. Page said Charter Schools USA is not a conversion company so that may be a question for someone else. He said it would depend on whether it will be handled by staff, residents, or a hired consultant. Is there a group of people who want to roll up there sleeves and go after this, or do you need to hire a professional company to do it; or is it a mix of both; it is probably a mixture of both. He said you can't do it without a core group of people, but no matter how enthusiastic they are they probably need someone who is familiar with the process. He added that the timeline is August 1, 2008 for when all of this needs to be completed and turned into the District. Mayor Vandergrift said Lake Wales has committed to helping us because they have done the conversions, Pembroke Pines has only done new start ups. Commissioner Hood said Clarcona is the black eye on the group, he wished they had been part of the survey because there are 50-60% Ocoee kids in that school. City Manager Frank said the new elementary school that the school board is planning to put on Hackney Prairie Road will be located in a rural settlement district in Ocoee. There was concern from the staff about sending mixed messages if we approve that based on the opinion we expressed about the Evans move to a rural settlement district. He said the Ocoee Planning and Zoning Board would have to hear the case and approve it, but the feeling from staff, as well as the Mayor and himself, was that the impact would be completely different with an elementary school with 600-700 kids coming in buses vs. 3000 kids being bussed or driving themselves. Mayor Vandergrift added that whatever is built there, a large percentage of the people served should come from that district and in the case of a new elementary school that is what will happen. That was not the case with Evans. 2 Mayor Vandergrift added that he and City Manager Frank made a trip to Lake Wales to talk to the people involved in their conversion. He said the School District said they would not stand in the way of us getting a vote from the schools, but they will certainly campaign against it. Mr. Page said Lake Wales is probably the best model for Ocoee to piggyback off of them and thinks it is a good idea to continue to tap into their knowledge. Mayor Vandergrift spoke about an elementary school conversion that was tried in the past, north of Gotha, where the parents in the school wanted to extend the school from a K-5 to a K-8. The school board campaigned against it and then a few years later, the School Board went in and changed it to a K-8. He felt the Board must have made a deal with the teachers that if they didn't vote for the Charter they would give them the K-8 that they wanted. Commissioner Anderson said we need to identify a school that we want to convert, and then find the appropriate people (volunteers, staff, etc.) to work with us on it. We need to move forward if we are going to do this. He added that he still believes we need to extend beyond the normal 180 hour school year. Commissioner Hood said he does not believe they have to work longer, he believes they have to work smarter. Mr. Page said he recommends that you determine "who" first; municipal backed initiative or a private foundation. Commissioner Hood said we would also have to decide the curriculum, teachers pay and benefits, etc. before we take it to a vote. Mr. Page said that would be the "why" part. Parents and teachers are going to want to know how it would benefit them and the kids. You may want to bring someone in who can help craft that message. He added that there ultimately needs to be a group of people who are empowered to make those decisions about what we want it to look like and why is that the right thing that will win the vote. Mayor Vandergrift said in Oakland, the City Commission is the School Board. Commissioner Anderson said we need to have a meeting with the Ocoee School Advisory Board and formulate a plan for what we want to do and what school we want to convert. Mayor Vandergrift said we need to have a consensus of how we are going to approach this because there are several different ways to do it. He discussed some of the current rezoning issues that we would like to do a better job with. We can try to get all of the schools in the City to convert, or just go with converting the high school because of the Evans situation. He added that the thinking is that you really need to start conversions at the elementary school level to set that psyche. Commissioner Hood said if we start with one school, for instance at Ocoee Elementary, and we fail to get the vote there, we can use that as a learning experience before we try to convert other schools. Mayor Vandergrift asked why we wouldn't want to go for the high school because they are the most threatened. Commissioner Hood agreed that if the School Board goes forward with their plan, that may be the right place to start. He added that he does not understand how the Orange County School Board can move forward with what they are proposing with the new high school on the 25 acre lot. He didn't think the County would pass it. Commissioner Keller said the worst group in the survey, as far as a Charter conversion, was the high school. Mr. Page said while it is true that they had a 30% interest, as opposed to 40% with the elementary school, we were surprised at how high the high school interest was in comparison to most high schools surveys on this issue. He said 30% is very high. Mayor Vandergrift said if they rezone Ocoee High School, most of the interested people will no longer be part of the vote. Commissioner Keller said that there would be more people from Apopka voting on it. He added that going with a high school as the first conversion will make it difficult because there are a number of people who are not affected by the Evans rezoning. That concern will be in District #4, until the rezoning widens to Starke Lake. 3 Commissioner Keller said the question with the Ocoee Elementary School conversion is what we can give them that they don't have already. It is an A school and the principal is not in favor of conversion. He said he thinks we need to go for the high school first; if it fails this time we will have gained knowledge to bring it back up in a few years when the rezoning starts to occur. Commissioner Hood said he thinks the new high school will be fast tracked and be done before the 2010 school year. Mayor Vandergrift said if they go back through the full process, it may run until after the elections on the school board. He said we should be encouraging good people to run for the school board. Commissioner Anderson said if we charter Ocoee High School from a municipal initiative, we could give City residents the first opportunity to be in that school up to the maximum. We would have to talk to parents and teachers and find out what would entice them. There was a discussion regarding the grading of schools in Ocoee. Sheila Grammer, Ocoee School Advisory Board, said if we attempt to charter the high school, the Board will rezone all of the current students; what if we have more students than the space that we have. Commissioner Keller said there are a number of Apopka students still at Ocoee which would reduce the number; there should still be room for everyone in Ocoee who wants to attend. Commissioner Hood said the survey said that only 50% of the students in Ocoee High School right now, come from Ocoee. Mayor Vandergrift said if we did the whole City, only 60% of capacity could be used from Ocoee residents and the rest could come from anywhere. Our students in the City would have the first chance to go there. Initially, we wouldn't disrupt the zoning, the kids from outside the City would still be able to go to the school and phase them out over four years, while their siblings are still attending. If attendance got much higher, we could make the decision to add wings to the schools. Ms. Grammar said she is not going to go to teachers and her neighbors until she can answer the questions about what we are going to do better and the classroom size issues. Mr. Page said there is law on class-size requirements; he did not see any reason why the City would not be allowed to use the existing portables if they decided that is what they want. Commissioner Anderson asked about impact to our budget, will it come out of our general fund. Mayor Vandergrift said every indication is that it would pay for itself. Commissioner Hood said that the funding is important, but our first priority is to determine who would run the school system; he did not think the Commission was qualified to do that. He said they should look at who we would hire to handle this. Lisa Wright, Ocoee School Advisory Board, said the board members are very involved in schools but that is not their careers; they would need guidance from someone who has the expertise. There should be two teams, the volunteers and the professionals. Commissioner Hood said the whole scenario of leadership should be determined before it goes to a vote. Parents and teachers are going to want to see some structure in place before they will vote for it. Commissioner Keller said that it will probably pay for itself with the tax money we would receive, although we would have to put in some money up front. We need to hire someone to work with Charter conversions and determine what that cost would be. If we want to make the August deadline, we will have to work on it quickly. We will need to set up the curriculum, teacher's salaries and benefits, etc. before we go for the vote. Is August 1st a realistic timeline? We have discussed this for several meetings, but we need to move from square one. Commissioner Hood said we have learned a lot in these meetings and we know we have to answer questions such as costs, who will run it, what will be better than what we currently have, who will be in charge, are the teachers credited, etc. Commissioner Keller added that our volunteers are great, but they do not have the expertise that we need. 4 Commissioner Anderson clarified if we only need to make application for the Charter Conversion by the first of August, not get the vote by then. Mr. Page said the results of the vote are supposed to be part of that application; that process would have to be completed. Joann Zeiss, Ocoee School Advisory Board, said we need to look in the community to find someone to help advise and lead, that would be helpful. We should not sell ourselves short with what we can offer them, if nothing else, just parental involvement in the school. Parents choose Charter Schools now, even over A rated schools, because they have more involvement. Hope Charter is doing very well. We need to convince the parents that we can provide a better environment; her daughter is in band and she loves art, but she cannot take both at Public School. We can compete with schools that have an A grade because we have things to offer as a community. Commissioner Anderson said we need to find that person in the community. Commissioner Keller said that we need to determine which school. There was discussion regarding issues at various schools and the consensus of the Commission was the high school had the biggest need because of the ongoing rezoning issues. Mayor Vandergrift said that the Commissioners need to do their research and educate themselves about the Charter Schools and the conversion process. Commissioner Hood said he has someone in mind already to help lead the conversion, but he cannot say who until he speaks with them. Commissioner Keller thanked Joanne Ziess for all of the work she did regarding the Wekiva rezoning, even though the end result was not what we wanted. Ms. Zeiss thanked others who worked very hard on the lawsuit. It was a community effort and they raised almost $30,000 to cover legal fees. She wants to let the kids know it was never about Wekiva being a bad school. Ms. Zeiss added that there are probably grounds for appeal, but she would rather but her efforts into getting Charter Schools in place. There was some discussion about the Wekiva case and the proposed Evans move, and the unsafe conditions in Pine Hills that the school board is claiming to be grounds for moving the high school. Ms. Zeiss suggested that Mr. Pitts, retired Principal from Evans, may be helpful with the conversion process. Mayor Vandergrift said that Martha Lopez-Anderson informed him that the Homebuilders Association has filed suit against the school board because they wasted $850,000,000 in building funds from what was presented in their plans when they increased the taxes. There were 25 new schools in their plans, one being Evans High School to be rebuilt for $22,000,000, which has now taken a quantum leap to moving it for $70,000,000 - $85,000,000. Mayor Vandergrift said we need to reassert ourselves, start looking for someone, and keep moving forward. Commissioner Keller asked if we could have staff start looking for someone who does Charter Conversions. They discussed which school should be converted and the consensus of the commission was that we wanted to convert Ocoee High School to a Charter School, but that it would have to be discussed at a regular meeting since this is a workshop. City Manager Frank said we can start looking, but he doesn't think there is enough information to determine the scope of services until it is discussed at a regular meeting and voted on. Commissioner Anderson said it sounds like we want to convert Ocoee High School to a Charter School. Commissioner Keller said we want to go ahead with the high school and we are looking for an organization that can help us create the curriculum and other things we need to get this passed. City Manager Frank said this organization can put together the operational model of what we anticipate, and then someone who can help us on the marketing end. Commissioner Keller said 5 so we can then go to the parents and teachers and let them know what we want to do and get it passed so it can later be presented to the School Board with our application. Commissioner Anderson said one company may be able to do both. He asked Mr. Page if his firm could bring in people from outside to help with the conversion through their company so it would stay under one company. Mayor Vandergrift told Mr. Page he thinks his firm ought to set up a department for conversions and you put in there that you will manage the school for three years as a contract. Mr. Page said there has been a lot of discussion about opening up a conversion department, but they would not serve them well by saying they could assist us with a conversion. He said they do not offer FRS or some other things that are going to be required to get the vote. Mr. Page said he can try to assist staff with a framework and summarizing what has been discussed. He added that there are organizations that can get you through the technical side of getting through a conversion; how that school district application process works, but the core issue is who the superintendant is and who drives the program design. Commissioner Anderson said what about trying to convert the Hackney Prairie School before it is built and teachers are hired. Mr. Page said the District would probably tell you there is no mechanism in place to allow that process. Mayor Pro Tern Hood said we have a general consensus on which way to go. He thanked everyone for coming out tonight. I III. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 8:02 p.m. Beth Eikenberry, CMC, City Clerk S. Scott Vandergrift, Mayor 6