HomeMy WebLinkAboutCRC 06/11/2008
City of Ocoee
Minutes of the Charter Review Commission
Meeting Held June 11, 2008
Call to Order
Chairperson Grafton
called the meeting to order at 6:36 p.m. in the Commission
Chairperson Grafton
Chambers of City Hall, located at 150 N. Lakeshore Drive. gave
Recording Clerk Moseley
the invocation and led the pledge of allegiance to the flag.
called roll and declared a quorum to be present.
Roll Call
Present:
Chairperson Jean Grafton, Members Carol Amey, Danny Howell (arrived
at 6:38 p.m.), and Rob McKey. Also present were City Clerk Eikenberry,
City Attorney Paul Rosenthal, and Recording Clerk Moseley.
Absent:
Member Michael Barnes (excused)
Guests:
Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioner Johnson, Commissioner Keller.
Chairperson Grafton
welcomed Carol Amey to the board, who had replaced Rosemarie
Morganto’s position.
Public Comments
The advertised Public Hearing was opened at 6:38 p.m.
Lester Dabbs (Past Mayor), 619 Caborca Court,
said he had questions, comments, and
suggestions for the board that were not meant to be critical. He misunderstood a few
things and did not think the actions of the board agreed with the charter.
Mr. Dabbs
Section C-65, page C42. Number of Districts. said the board had
discussed adding 2 commissioners, leaving it an odd number. He said there
would be about 2,000 voters per district and that seemed good to him. Another
idea suggested was having a city-wide election for all commissioners and he
thought that was also a good idea.
Section C-21, page C22. Regarding the City Manager living or not living in the
City. “The City Manager shall be appointed solely on the basis of executive and
administrative qualifications and need not be a resident of the City of Ocoee or
the State of Florida at the time of appointment. The City Manager may reside
outside the city while employed as City Manager, subject to the approval of the
City Commission.” Mr. Dabbs felt the City Manager should be required to live
within the City; given a 6-9 month grace period do so. He believes there is a
different perspective when you live where you work, so recommended changing
that to a requirement.
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Mr. Dabbs
Four-Year Terms for Commission. said the Supervisor of Elections
had recommended changing to four-year terms and he agreed. He would also like
to see a return to a November election because more voters show up to major
elections than minor. He thought the public could be better served if more people
participated.
Mr. Dabbs
asked how the public would know when the Charter is not being followed.
Chairperson Grafton
He knew of several instances when the Charter was not followed.
gave some history of her experiences as City Clerk and had learned that citizens who care
are to report violations, such as Code violations and Election violations, and believed the
same rules applied to Charter violations.
Lester Dabbs
Section C-10, Page C13. Judge of Qualifications. questioned an
instance with former Commissioner Danny Howell being out of line and the
City Attorney Rosenthal
Charter says City Commission could suspend him.
said, in the case of former Commissioner Howell, the City Commission did
follow the Charter. He explained the Charter states that City Commission is the
judge of the qualifications of their members and that was a discretionary decision
among them as to whether they wanted to take an action or not; they had decided
City Attorney Rosenthal
not to take an action.had provided City Commission
with a legal opinion that in the absence of any action by the Commission that
even a member who was not qualified as elected could hold the office under their
title, unless such action is brought to remove them. He added that there was a
Mr. Dabbs
Florida Supreme Court case on that point as well. stated he was
under the impression that City Commission had to police their own membership
and suspend him. He said Danny Howell was not suspended, but given 6 months
to correct the problem. He said he would find the exact wording of the Charter
that he is referring to and bring it back to the board for their review. He stated he
realized that political decisions are made and sometimes against the attorney's
advice, such as not doing away with the Over-65 Program as the attorney advised.
Mr. Dabbs
Section C-8B. Page C7. Property Rights. said he recalled a property
that went to bid and was granted to Tom West to go to the Baptist Church,
although it was not the highest bid. He said he had no problem with who it was
Member Howell
awarded to, but questioned how the highest bidder did not win.
said that he was Commissioner at the time and remembers that the higher bidder
had backed out on that deal.
Mr. DabbsChairperson
inquired about using the same auditor over the years and
Grafton
explained their discussion with the Finance Director at a prior Charter Review
Commission meeting.
Section C-21, page C22. The City Commission shall fix the compensation of the
City Manager and shall meet annually with the City Manager to review and
Mr. Dabbs
evaluate the City Manager’s performance. asked if the City
City
Manager’s evaluation was done annually and if that was open to the public.
2
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Attorney Rosenthal
said it was open to the public, but he does not monitor
whether they do it annually or not.
Mr. Dabbs
asked if the City Commission’s pension was covered in the City Charter.
City Attorney RosenthalMr. Dabbs
said that was a City Ordinance, not the Charter.
asked if it was a legal opinion that their pension was not covered under compensation in
City Attorney Rosenthal
the City Charter. said he had not rendered any legal opinion
Mr. Dabbs
on that subject. said the pension seems like a benefit to Commission and he
Member Howell
thinks it should be in the Charter. stated he had received an outside
legal opinion on that subject and was told it could be done, but a Commissioner has to
run for another election and be re-elected before he could receive it. He found it to be a
City Attorney Rosenthal
violation of the Charter and the Ethics. said the Charter does
not technically address compensation, only the annual salary of Commission. So if the
committee wishes to address that issue, they should look at it because the title of the
Mr. Dabbs
section says compensation, but the paragraph refers to annual salary. asked
how that can be undone if the pension had 3 votes. He said many citizens were not
pleased with that action and asked if they would have to go through recall for that to
Member Howell
change. thought that would still have to be approved each year in the
Chairperson Grafton
budget, even though Commission already approved their pension.
said it had nothing to do with the budget because it had to do with the pension.
City Attorney Rosenthal
stated if the board’s proposal for the Charter was to address the
pension for officials, they can propose to address that in the Charter. Then the question
Mr.
of how that can be applied (i.e., retro-active) can also be addressed at that time.
Dabbs
asked the board to please address that issue because he has not heard any member
of the public to speak positively about that action. He assured that he was not accusing
anyone, but it did not seem to compute with him.
Mr. Dabbs
Section C-28, Page C27. City Clerk.said the Charter requires
Commission to approve the City Clerk's salary each year and asked if that has
Chairperson Grafton
ever been on the agenda. said it was addressed during the
budget each year, like everyone else’s salary, but was not separated out.
Mr. Dabbs
Section C-30, Page C29. Personnel System. inquired if the Personnel
Board was currently active. City Clerk Eikenberry said it was.
Mr. Dabbs
Section C-46, Page C36. General Election Rules. heard that the
Supervisor of Elections suggested doing away with run-off elections; however,
Chairperson Grafton
the Charter says we have to have one. said the Supervisor
City Clerk
of Elections recommends they change that section in the Charter.
Eikenberry
said the history of Ocoee has not shown a run-off election ever
making a difference; however, that does not mean that it will never happen.
Fred Wilsen, 1019 Shady Maple
, commented that charter schools were not mention in
the City Charter and asked if that was a problem, since that subject is active right now.
3
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
City Attorney Rosenthal
said the word charter in charter school has nothing to do with
the City Charter; they are two different things and it does not prohibit the charter schools.
Mr. Wilsen
inquired about emergency powers and the order of succession, and was
concerned that it ends after mayor pro tem. He suggested they include other
commissioners in the event that the mayor or mayor pro tem was not able to be available
Mayor
in the emergency. He asked who would run the city if that happened.
Vandergrift
said it should be understood that it would then go by seniority of those in
Mr. Wilsen
office. asked that they clarify that subject in the Charter.
Fred Wilsen
suggested some clean up items of the Charter as follows:
Section C-24A, Page C25. The word ‘employees’ should be singular and not
plural; he suggested removing the ‘s’ from the word.
Section C-27, Page C27. Currently states that “before ‘entering’ the duties of
office”; he suggested changing the word from ‘entering’ to ‘commencing’ his
duties.
Fred Wilsen
inquired about Section C-62, Page C42 and asked how the Charter would
be amended if the recommendations made by the Charter Review Commission were
City Attorney Rosenthal
rejected. said the Charter establishes one method of which the
Charter amendments may be proposed to the electors, the City Commission can propose
Charter amendments on their own initiative, and there is a State Statutory procedure that
pertains to that as well.
Lester Dabbs
asked about Section C-24, Page C25, Duties of the City Manager. He
asked if there was any in-service training being done in the City. If not, he asked to add
an item K with conjunction with the HR Director, or other appropriate personnel, that he
establish an in-service training program to ensure that directors/officers stay current. He
stated the City Clerk has a recertification program and police officers have these
Chairperson
programs, etc., but was not sure if the City Manager had anything like that.
Grafton City Clerk Eikenberry
thought the directors took consistent training. said that
directors maintained their own certifications and they were not mandated by the City
Manager; for example, the Clerk’s office attended conferences each year to keep their
Lester Dabbs
certifications. requested that they add an Item K to read that “In
conjunction with the Human Resources Director, or other appropriate personnel, they
establish an in-service training requirement to ensure that directors/officers stay current
in their field”.
Lester Dabbs
also suggested adding an Item L “to hold quarterly individual meetings
with director(s) to ensure teamwork and leadership development leading to efficient job
performances”. His understanding was that these types of meetings did not currently take
place, but he thought it was important so that employees be shown the way so they know
City Clerk Eikenberry
where they may need to improve. said they did hold monthly
Mr. Dabbs
meetings for the department directors. understood that, but his concern was
that directors should also be holding regular meetings with their employees, and he was
Chairperson Grafton
told that was not happening presently. said the City Manager will
be notified and they should receive a report from him that it is already pending.
4
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Commissioner Joel Keller, District 4,
suggested that the emergency powers after the
mayor pro tem be granted by the length of service. He thought that those with more time
Commissioner
on the board would probably be better at knowing the insides of the City.
Keller
referred to Section C-45, Election dates and terms of service and suggested
changing the length of terms in Commission to four years, rather than tree. He also
thought lining it up with the Orange County elections would be great and going with the
primary for the year, instead of regular would be better. Then, if there were a run-off,
then they could use the run-off for the general election at the beginning of the year.
Commissioner Keller
referred to Section C-65, Number of Districts and said that all
commissioners live North of Hwy. 50 and the citizens South of Hwy. 50 may feel left
Member Howell
out. stated that the citizens in that area have the opportunity to run for
Commissioner Keller
office as well. agreed but suggested there be a couple of districts
added for that area since it is growing so much.
Commissioner Keller
commented that he felt it was unfair that citizens on advisory
boards had to resign from the board in order to run for City Commission. He stated he
would hate to see a Commissioner resign to run for Mayor, thinking the Mayor was going
to retire, and then find that he changed his mind and the Commissioner had resigned their
City Attorney Rosenthal
seat for no reason. said that requirement was made by State
Statutes and could not be overruled by the Charter.
Mayor Scott Vandergrift, 2625 Cedar Bluff Lane,
commented on the different types of
government that exist around the country. He suggested looking at the idea of giving the
Mayor the veto power, rather than just the power of one vote. He said the Sunshine Law
is written around the collegiate body (meaning you have a vote) and if you are not part of
that body (veto means you have no vote), then you can talk to the others one on one. He
felt the Mayor should be able to talk to the Commissioners one on one.
Mayor Vandergrift
responded to Mr. Dabbs’ comments of the City Manager living in
Ocoee. He agreed with the concept that they might be more intimate with the City if they
lived inside of it; however, if the City Manager is doing a reasonably good job, then they
should have their own choice of residence. He has asked that the City Manager remind
the Commission that it is their evaluation time, but that does not happen. He would also
suggest they create a fundamental evaluation form to assist them.
Mayor Vandergrift
referred to Section C-12, Page C14, regarding Commission being
prohibited from interfering with the day to day operations of the City. He said they have
had problems with that from time to time and nothing in the Charter is clear about it, but
the City Manager should not be allowing that to happen. He has heard and seen threats to
Mayor Vandergrift
employees to be fired and that should not be happening.
recommended adding a sanction to the Charter for those Commissioners who do not
abide by the Charter.
5
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Mayor Vandergrift
suggested adding a section to the Charter regarding citizens who
wish to run for office and cannot afford to, such as waiving qualifying fees or allowing a
City
petition in lieu of fees. He said almost every political body has that, but we do not.
Clerk Eikenberry
said there is a hardship whereas they may waive the State fee, but
Mayor Vandergrift
there is currently nothing in place to waive the City fee. asked the
board to look at what other cities do for that issue and consider adding a section to the
Charter.
Lester Dabbs
stated he had discovered the section of the Charter relating to the earlier
Mayor Vandergrift
topic of the incident with former Commissioner Danny Howell.
said he was there during Commissioner Howell's situation and when Commission makes
those decisions, you are innocent until proven guilty. He said that Commissioner Howell
had been convicted and the conviction was turned over; however, the Judge omitted
Mayor Vandergrift
putting the turnover into the records. had encouraged him to have
our City Attorney straighten it out and that is why the Commission was not in a rush to
City Attorney Rosenthal
remove him. suggested, rather than debating on past events,
that they focus on possible revisions to the Charter.
City Attorney Rosenthal
added that the candidate qualifying fee that is paid to the City
was part of the City Code. He said they could propose to the City Commission to direct
Mayor
an amendment to the Election Code (Section 5-4), they would have that power.
Vandergrift
asked the board to consider adding that to the City Charter. He further
suggested that they ask the City Commissioners and the City Manager to attend a meeting
to give their point of view, and they review the model charter prior to making any final
decisions.
Rosemary Wilsen, 1019 Shady Maple Circle
, was interested in the city-wide elections
and adding two districts/commissioners. She said term limits interest her as well and
thought that four-year terms were good. She also agreed with Finance Director Horton
who spoke of Section C-37 (budget and advertising) being part of the State Statute and
was not necessary to be in the Charter. She asked for clarification on the relevance of
Chairperson Grafton
Section C-8M, Page C9, Transportation. said there was issue of
taxes in the 1980’s that prompted that to be in there and it was more of a formality.
Rosemary Wilsen
inquired about what happens if the City Commission rejects the
Chairperson GraftonMrs.
board’s recommendations. replied that it would then die.
Wilsen
asked why the City would have this board if they were not going to take their
recommendations and found it difficult to think the Commission might just reject all of
Mayor Vandergrift
the board’s efforts. hoped that would not happen, but it was just
like the advisory boards bringing recommendations to the City Commission.
Commissioner Rusty Johnson, District 3,
commented that Charter amendment changes
are a major issue of the City. He thought the board should make recommendations to the
City Commission for input, but that it should go to referendum to the citizens; that is
Chairperson Grafton
what they are for. said the last time they brought issues to City
Commission they rejected some of them and allowed some to go to the ballot.
6
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Commissioner Johnson
said times change and he thinks it is up the citizens to decide.
He said they can put alternative things on the referendum for the citizens if they want and
let them decide that way. This committee only meets every 10 years and it is important;
it behooves them as representatives of the citizens of Ocoee to let the citizens decide that.
Rosemary Wilsen
agreed with Commissioner Johnson and thought it was very important
for the citizens to be involved with it. She thought they should have the opportunity to
vote on it and would like to see all recommendations go to referendum. She believed that
going to November elections would bring a larger population out to vote.
Commissioner Johnson
commented that adding two commissioners might make it a
little harder for people to control Commission, and puts more emphasis on adding less
pressure to two people to get a third vote. He also said people should always mention
Commissioners and Mayor, not only speak of Commissioners. He believed there was
coercion with a bunch of Commissioners and he has seen it done before. He thought it is
a way of leveling out the playing field and puts less pressure on the City Manager, as
Commissioner Johnson
well. said Commissioners are not authorized to fire any
employee, so he did not understand why people would think that happens. He had no
problem with term limits, but said the State seems to have a problem getting a consensus
to do anything because the members keep changing.
Commissioner Johnson
commented on the complaints over the pension issue and said it
was only $100-200 per person. He said to do away with it if it bothers people so badly,
but suggested they look at the free insurance and per diem that is being taken by some
Commissioners and was voted for without any uproar from citizens. He talked about the
November elections and the equipment provided by SOE and saving money where they
can. His final comment was that the citizens should be the major emphasis on what they
do with the Charter and if only 15% show up to vote, then only 15% will make the
difference.
Lester Dabbs
said the big question seemed to be how they would get more people out to
vote. He said he would like to be a part of any effort to educate the public on the
importance of voting.
Commissioner Keller
preferred single member districts because he had seen in other
cities in the past where one district gets over represented and then that district gets too
much power over the others. He believes that when you can hold someone more
Chairperson Grafton
accountable that they will be more responsive. said it had been
Commissioner
suggested by the Mayor that they have two commissioners run at large.
Keller
questioned the Mayor’s suggestion of veto power and did not think that would
work well for them. He thanked the board for all of their time and effort they are putting
into this.
Lester Dabbs
respectfully disagreed with Commissioner Keller regarding running city
wide. He said as long as you must reside in the district you represent then it should work
just fine. Every commissioner represents every citizen, not just those in his district. He
7
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
does not support the veto. He agreed with Rosemary Wilsen that what this board’s
recommendations should not be able to be vetoed by the Commission and should go to
referendum.
Commissioner Johnson
suggested one way to look at a city-wide election was to make it
Chairperson Grafton
so the Mayor is elected as a Commissioner city-wide. said they
have a model charter to review and that is one model that is addressed in it. She said that
is also an option to be considered by City Commission to go to referendum.
Commissioner Johnson
disagreed with Lester Dabbs on supporting city-wide elections
for each district. He definitely voted no on the veto idea; he must have missed that
discussion.
Commissioner Keller
stated his opposition to the term limits because too many good
people have to stop just because they have been in office for a certain number of years.
He believed that if citizens really did not like the person who is there, then they would
vote them out at election time. When someone in office has done a tremendous job, they
should not be forced out. He said they just need to get good people in office. He said that
once a Mayor or Commissioner starts losing their edge and starts thinking of themselves
rather than the City or gets on an ego trip, then they should be voted out by the citizens.
The Public Hearing was closed at 8:26 p.m.
Comments
Chairperson Grafton
announced the City Clerk passed out a chart of various cities and
their population and how many Commissioners they each have. They had also received a
model city charter to review prior to the next meeting on June 25, 2008, and it was posted
on the City website for public review.
Approval of the Charter Review Commission Minutes of May 28, 2008
.
Vice-Chair McKeyMember Amey
, seconded by , moved to approve the Charter Review
Commission minutes for May 28, 2008. Motion carried unanimously.
Direction to City Attorney and Staff
To proceed as intended.
Vice-Chair McKey
asked about their recommendations going to City Commission and if
City Attorney
their recommendations and comments should go straight to an election.
Rosenthal
said this particular body is prohibited by Charter to bypass the City
Commission, but they can propose an amendment for future bodies.
Set Next Meeting Date
The next meeting was scheduled for June 25, 2008, when they would continue reviewing
the City Charter by section.
8
Charter Review Commission Meeting
June 11, 2008
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 8:31 p.m.
erk
9