HomeMy WebLinkAboutCRC 07/07/2009
City of Ocoee
Minutes of the Charter Review Commission
Joint Meeting with City Commission
Held July 7, 2009
Call to Order
Mayor Vandergrift called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m., in the Commission
Chambers of City Hall, located at 150 N. Lakeshore Drive. City Clerk Eikenberry
ca\led roll and declared a quorum to be present.
Roll Call of Charter Review Commission:
Present: Chairperson Grafton, Vice-Chair McKey, Members Arney, and Barnes.
Absent: Member Howell.
Roll Call of City Commission:
Present: Commissioner Hood, Commissioner Wilsen, Mayor Vandergrift,
Commissioner Johnson, and Commissioner Keller.
Absent: None.
AI~o present were City Clerk Eikenberry, City Manager Frank, and City Attorney
Rosenthal.
Mayor Vandergrift opened the meeting and asked if a decision had been made for a
mail out ballot for the Charter Revisions. City Attorney Rosenthal stated that no such
direction had been given to staff. City Clerk Eikenberry clarified that in a meeting on
May 5, 2009, the commission voted to accept the report and recommendations of the
Charter Review Commission with the exception of one item pertaining to the number of
districts. She said at that time the Commission directed the Charter Review Commission
to reconsider that item and after that time the Mayor felt it would be best to call a Joint
Meeting or Workshop of the Charter Review Commission and City Commission. Board
Chair Grafton said we have not met again since the decision was made to have a
workshop, the board had considered that issue several times and in the end decided that it
would be premature to make changes at this time. Member McKey said that the Board
discussed having a trigger, such as a population of 40,000 where that issue of adding
additional districts should be reconsidered. He said he disagreed with the board, but in the
end they decided not to move forward with any recommendation for change.
Commissioner Johnson said he felt this issue should go on the referendum vote and let
the residents decide. He said if it makes the 2010 ballot it won't go into effect for a few
years. Commissioner Wilsen said she attended these meetings and did not get a clear
feeling that they were against recommending extra districts. Commissioner Keller said
he also attended several meetings and expressed an interest that he would like to add two
districts and leave the Mayor to be elected by the entire City, however, he likes the mayor
pro tern rotating among members. He preferred adding two more commissioners.
Charter Review Member Barnes announced that the Charter Review Commission
voted on November 19, 2008 to leave the number of districts as it currently is. He said
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Charter Review Commission Joint Meeting with City Commission
July 7, 2009
they discussed the size of the south side of Ocoee along Maguire Road and the possible
need for representation from that specific area. Commissioner Johnson said he spends
more time in that area because those HOA's are more active so they are being well
represented by him. He also stated that he works for all Ocoee citizens, as does each
member of the commission. He said the ballot could offer both options for a vote city-
wide, to have seven commissioners with mayor being elected by those seven OR having
seven commissioners with the mayor being elected city-wide.
Commissioner Hood agreed with keeping five commissioners because many cities with
a higher population work well with five commissioners, plus the cost of adding two more
commissioners at this time does not seem feasible. He added, however, that he agrees
that the choice should be made by the citizens via ballot because it is their city and their
money. Commissioner Hood would also like the citizens to have the opportunity to vote
for commissioner term limit (2 or 3 terms); he does not think they are here to be career
politicians. He agreed with Commissioner Johnson's comment that they all work for all
citizens of the city and are paid by all. He does not believe the city can afford to have a
commissioner every five miles and such funds could be better used on parks and police
an~ fire services. He also agreed that the residents south of Hwy. 50 are well represented
by Commissioner Johnson. Overall, Commissioner Hood recommended the opportunity
for citizens to vote on term limits, five or seven commissioners, and electing the mayor
city-wide or by commissioners.
Commissioner Wilsen said they are not doing a special referendum for these questions,
they can just be added to the ballot so it will not cost more. She is in favor of term limits
and having that question on the ballot. Commissioner Hood said he would like to see
some members of commission who do such a great job for Ocoee to move on to serve on
the county commission or the school board, and thinks that little shove may be what they
need to do that. Commissioner Johnson stated he had no problem with term limits
be~ng set, but if citizens want to vote you out they will. The elections each term set there
own term limits. If people don't want you there they will vote you out. Term limits were
on the last referendum election and people did not vote for it. Charter Review Member
Amey agreed and disliked the idea of limits because it would force someone great out of
office and she likes commissioners with experience. Commissioner Keller agreed and
thinks the knowledge and history of long-time officers is beneficial to the city, therefore,
he'Would like to see the term limit item left off the ballot.
Mayor Vandergrift said the term limits are elections and the people should be able to
tell you when you need to get out of office. He said if they went to more commissioners,
then they should run checks and balances, such as having an executive, a laws division,
an~ judicial. He said the judicial is already taken care of, but if they go to seven
members make one a senator that represents the whole city as the mayor. He
recommends keeping things as they are for now and waiting ten years to add
commissioners.
Charter Review Member Barnes asked to hear more about the other commissioners'
views on moving to seven commissioners, whether it is 6 districts plus the mayor or 7
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Charter Review Commission Joint Meeting with City Commission
July 7, 2009
districts. Commissioner Hood said if we could afford it that would benefit the citizens;
however, it all comes down to money and it would cost too much for the budget.
Commissioner Johnson said if they did vote to add more commissioners that it would be
a couple of years before it would take affect. He stated that the added commissioners'
salaries would pay for themselves in that time. Commissioner Hood inquired to the city
manager if the city could afford two more commissioners. City Manager Frank said the
cost of two more commissioners would be minimal in their budget.
City Attorney Rosenthal said the Charter Review Commission has presented them with
their final report. From a procedural stand point, the City Charter says the City
Commission can either accept or reject the recommendations in the report, or the City
Commission can send the report back to the Charter Review Commission for further
study and consideration. It would then be at the discretion of the Charter Review
Commission as to whether they would make changes to their report or not before sending
it back to City Commission.
City Attorney Rosenthal said the two bodies could agree by a consensus at tonight's
meeting by modifying the report and come to a consensus so that the report is
accepted by the City Commission. He explained the City Commission could vote on
what changes are recommended to the Charter Review Commission, who in turn can
vote and reply back whether they agree or disagree. This process may also be done at
. another meeting. But the charter, in terms of the report, does not allow the City
Commission to discuss and vote on other items other than those in the report. He
stated that if City Commission wanted to initiate an additional charter amendment, as
opposed to only the changes stated in the Charter Review Commission's report, then
he would have to research the Florida Statute for that process.
Commissioner Wilsen said they already voted to accept all recommendations
presented in the final report by the Charter Review Commission. Commissioner
Keller said they accepted all recommendations except one piece, which they want the
Charter Review Commission to look over again and bring back a different direction.
He thinks we could use the six districts with the mayor being elected at large. By the
. time this all took place, which would probably be two years from now, the city would
be ready for it and could afford it.
Commissioner Johnson inquired to the city attorney about the city manager living in
town. He asked if that had anything to do with the police chief or fire chief and, if
. not, if they could add that in. He would like to see those employees with those high
incomes living within the town that pays them. He believes that if they lived in
Ocoee they would pay more attention to what goes on around the city. He would also
like to make sure the City Commission has a say so in the future hiring of the city
manager, assistant city manager, police chief, fire chief, and deputy chief positions.
Commissioner Wilsen agreed, but stated they would need to allow a reasonable
. amount of time after hiring to become a resident. Charter Review Member Barnes
said they had discussed that topic before, but decided to leave it up to the City
Commission to pass a resolution to change that in the code, and did not think it
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Charter Review Commission Joint Meeting with City Commission
July 7, 2009
needed to be in the charter. City Attorney Rosenthal said the City Charter gives the
city manager the hiring authority over those positions and whether or not the City
. Commission has the authority to direct him in that he is not sure. He asked if they
wanted to take some final action tonight or refer the report back to the Charter
Review Commission to review and bring back a revised report with specific wording.
Consensus was to refer the report back to the Charter Review Commission.
. City Attorney Rosenthal then suggested having two meetings, first of the Charter
Review Commission to go over the discussion and revise their report. Then, they
would have another meeting to look over the amended language in the revised report
and to go over the legality, implementation, etc. He said they could reach a
consensus as to what they want tonight; however, they would not have the wording to
vote on. Commissioner Keller stated that he prefers to grandfather in those
. employees already holding the positions mentioned earlier by Commissioner Johnson,
regarding residency requirements.
City Attorney Rosenthal suggested that City Commission list specific items they
wish to be addressed by the Charter Review Commission, or defer to Jean Grafton as
. to what the Charter Review Commission prefers. Charter Review Chairperson
Grafton listed the items she understood to be further discussed by her board:
1. Include term limits?
2. Five or seven commissioners?
3. Mayor elected city-wide or by the commissioners?
4. Department directors, chiefs, managers residing in town?
She asked if there were any other items that the City Commission desired to add. Mayor
Vandergrift inquired if the Charter Review Commission felt they had enough public
input on the items. Charter Review Chairperson Grafton said she would like to see
the public properly educated on the wording that will appear on the ballot so they
completely understand the items. Discussion ensued.
Mayor Vandergrift inquired as to what the term limits would be, if they chose to include
that. Commissioner Keller informed that the new pension update states the
commissioners are eligible if in office for nine years, so he recommended term limits that
would allow that time to be reached. Commissioner Wilsen also reminded them that
one recommendation was changing to four year terms, so keep that in mind as well.
City Attorney Rosenthal said that one task not yet undertaken is how they take the
report from the Charter Review Commission and divide it up, because there is a single
subject rule. They have to go through the different topics and put them into some
groupings from a ballot question standpoint, which is a task he would undertake. Also,
tht';y have to make sure they do not have inconsistent results, such that two ballot
questions passed would cause conflicting provisions. For instance, he recommends the
term limits to be a single ballot question on that sole subject; change of the size of the
commission would be a single ballot question on that sole subject. He said ministerial
things could be put on one question. He added to keep in mind that last time they
included all ministerial things on one question and that item did not pass.
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Charter Review Commission Joint Meeting with City Commission
July 7, 2009
Charter Review Member Barnes clarified that the Charter Review Commission had
previously voted to take term limits off the table, and asked if City Commission was
asking them to put it back on the table.
Mavor Vander!!rift. seconded by Commissioner Keller. moved to take the review of
term limits off the table and leave that alone in the charter. Motion carried 3-2.
with Commissioners Hood and Wilsen opposed.
Commissioner Hood said they are taking that choice away from the people by removing
that item. Charter Review Member Amey stated the public does have that choice every
time they vote at election time for their commissioner.
Charter Review Member Barnes listed the viable issues to be further discussed by the
Charter Review Commission:
1. The number of districts: four plus mayor, or six plus mayor.
2. Part of number 1 is seven voting districts or six plus mayor.
3. Residence requirements for department directors, chiefs, and city manager(s).
City Attorney Rosenthal said the prior recommendation/action should be rescinded,
whereas they voted in favor of the Charter Review Commission's report with the
exception of the issue of increasing the City Commission from five to seven members
ana directed the board to revisit that issue.
Mayor Vander!!rift. seconded by Commissioner Keller. moved to rescind the prior
vote to approve the report of the Charter Review Commission. Motion carried 4-1.
with Commissioner Wilsen opposed.
Commissioner Wilsen stated she would like to accept the report of the Charter Review
Commission and just add those three items mentioned tonight.
Commissioner Hood. seconded by Mayor Vander!!rift. moved to neither accept or
reiect the report from the Charter Review Commission. and ask them to take it
back to further address those three items listed toni!!ht to brin!! a revised report
back to City Commission. Motion carried 4-1. with Commissioner Wilsen opposed.
Charter Review Chairperson Grafton said their board had to meet quickly. City
Attorney Rosenthal said the SOE deadline for ballot wording in the March election is in
January. He said the report would come promptly back to the City Commission.
Commissioner Wilsen was concerned that rejected the report entirely and sending it
back would allow the Charter Review Commission to rehash the entire charter, rather
than just approving the report except those three specific items. Charter Review
Chairperson Grafton assured her they were only concerned with the three items
mentioned tonight and have already been through the entire charter thoroughly.
Commissioner Hood asked that the meeting for the Charter Review Commission be
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Charter Review Commission Joint Meeting with City Commission
July 7, 2009
made known to the City Commission and was informed it would be open to the public.
Adiournment
TIre meeting adjourned at 6:57 p.m.
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