HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-24-00 Minutes
MINUTES OF OCOEE CITY COMMISSION WORK SESSION
HELD APRIL 24, 2000
CALL TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:07 p.m.
PRESENT: Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioners Anderson, Johnson and Parker. Also
present were City Manager Shapiro, City Attorney Rosenthal, and
Planning Director Wagner, Assistant City EngineerlUtilities Director
Wheeler, Public Works Director Smith, Finance Director Horton,
Professional Engineering Consultants Hooper and Hamstra, and Deputy
City Clerk Green.
ABSENT: Commissioner Howell.
DISCUSS STATUS OF DRAINAGE UTILITY PROJECTS
Assistant City Engineer/Utilities Director Wheeler introduced David Hamstra, the
City's Stormwater Consultant, who distributed the Stormwater Update dated April 24,
2000. Mr. Hamstra reviewed the handout.
Mr. Hamstra directed attention to the Recommended Phase II Projects listed on page 18
of the handout. He said the nine projects were listed in their recommended order, subject
to discussion and establishment of priority by City Commission. The first four projects
listed below were discussed in detail as to extent of work and cost.
Project No.1, Pioneer Key II Mobile Home Park
Acquire drainage easements and relocation costs - $150,000
Mr. Hamstra explained that Orange County will grant funding of approximately
$400,000.00 via a Community Development Block Grant to construct the proposed
improvements if the City acquires the easements. He said the City's estimated cost to
purchase three lots and a small triangular piece of property along with appraisal and
relocation fees would be $100,000.00 to $150,000.00.
Mr. Hamstra pointed out that construction of the Western Beltway has significantly
reduced the amount of water that flows from west to east toward the Mobile Home Park.
Mayor Vandergrift asked what role the roads would playas a part of the drainage
system and recalled his suggestions to address problems with them. Mr. Hamstra
responded that the $400,000.00 would fund a backbone system but not road
improvements, and that additional inlets and road reconstruction could be done later at
additional cost. City Manager Shapiro pointed out that the City does not have funds at
this point to improve the roads, but that, if the project is approved, he can guarantee a
drier park.
Commission Work Session
April 24, 2000
Project No.2, Starke Lake
Construct two 12-inch diameter drainwell replacements - $250,000.00
Mr. Hamstra said, based on conversations with Henderson Wilder, who constructs
drainage wells in the central Florida area and had inspected the current 8" wells, that it is
his opinion that they are going to need to be replaced. Minor temporary patch work might
be possible, but severe rusting of the casing of the drainage wells, if left unattended,
could lead to collapse and non-functioning. The cost to abandon old 8" wells and drill
two new 12" drainwell replacements is estimated to be $250,000.00.
Mr. Hamstra said the Department of Environmental Protection has authority over
closure and construction of drainage wells. He said to construct a well that is different
from that which is already in place as to size and elevation would require a permit from
DEP, and it may take one or two years to get the permit. Mr. Shapiro recommended that
the City patch the old wells and apply for permits to construct new wells.
Mr. Wheeler said the wells are working, but not to their maximum capacity. He said the
northern well had been cleaned down to 115 - 120 feet and the southern well down to 240
feet. He said he had no way to measure the efficiency of the wells.
Mr. Shapiro pointed out that these were county wells which had been taken over by the
City in 1989-1990 because the County had not been maintaining them.
Project No.3 - Center Street Ditch/Center Street Stormwater Pond Project
Construction 100-year retention pond - $400,000.00
(Starke Lake Drainage Basin)
Mr. Hamstra said this project was originally included in Phase II of the CIP program in
March, 1996. He said cost to construct a pond of sufficient size to retain all runoff from
the north and east up to 100 year storm events would be $400,000.00. He said the head of
the Stormwater Division of Orange County has said the County would purchase the
property if the City would commit to construction of the pond.
Mr. and Mrs. Hunt have purchased or are in the process of purchasing the property in
which the pond will be located. They have met with City staff and also with Orange
County staff. The Hunts would like for the pond to be reoriented to take advantage of the
ridge and to minimize cut infill.
Mr. Hamstra said at least half of the $400,000.00 cost is related to the amount of dirt
that must be moved out of this system. He said if the City can excavate the dirt and haul
it offsite, there could be a significant cost savings. Public Works Director Smith said he
could use the excess dirt in other projects, but his department cannot both excavate and
haul the dirt as he has one loader and one truck.
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Commission Work Session
April 24, 2000
Mr. Shapiro pointed out that should Commission choose to do so, funding Projects 1,2
and 3 would use the available funds with no room for error.
Commissioner Johnson asked if it had helped the drainage when the County paved the
roads off Center Street. Mr. Shapiro said the County had put in box culverts only and
had used alternative paving, which usually lasts six to eighteen months before cracking.
Project No.4 - Reflections Subdivision (Spring Lake Drainage Basin)
Construction roadway and side-yard underdrains - $70,000.00
Mr. Hamstra said construction of roadway underdrains within Reflections Subdivision
would cost about $70,000.00 to address two specific areas: (1) Three to four homes on
Cool Springs Circle, and (2) Three to four homes on Sparkling Water Circle.
Mayor Vandergrift asked if there had not been a problem in Reflections before the
developer was moving out and said the City should not have to retrofit drainage problems
in new subdivisions.
Commissioner Johnson asked who approves/certifies the drainage basins. Mr. Wheeler
said in the design review process the City requires the developer to have a geotechnical
engineer to examine the soils and make recommendations as to whether underdrains are
necessary or not necessary. He said they are required to submit soils analysis as part of
the development review process. Mr. Wheeler recalled that the original recommendation
for Reflections was that underdrains were not required anywhere along the roadways.
Commissioner Johnson said this issue had been discussed years ago and the City should
not have to be accountable. He said the City should be able to address problems in older
areas of the City instead of having to go back to new projects.
Mr. Shapiro said that the City of Kissimmee had the same problem and now required
underdrains in all new subdivision development, at an approximate cost of $5,000 per lot,
in order to guarantee that their City never had a drainage problem in new development.
Commissioner Parker recalled problems in Sawmill, Amber Ridge, Silver Glen, etc. and
said if problems are not addressed now, they will be more expensive to correct later.
Commissioner Anderson asked why the City could not file suite if there is a problem
due to faulty engineering on a project.
City Attorney Rosenthal recalled that research had been done on this subject for the
Silver Glen Subdivision. He said under our codes the developer is responsible for a two
year period, and provides a maintenance bond. After two years, by law, the City assumes
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Commission Work Session
April 24, 2000
responsibility. He recalled case law which provides that after two years goes by,
assuming that developers have constructed in accordance with the plans and
specifications which Commission has approved, they are off the hook and liability and
responsibility shifts. If they have failed to construct in accordance with the plans and
specifications which have been approved by the City, then there may be negligence
issues. He said in this case, they seem to have constructed in accordance with the plans
and specifications submitted to the City, recommended through the process, and
ultimately approved by the City Commission, and the two years have passed.
City Manager Shapiro said that is why the City of Kissimmee began requiring all
properties to have underdrains.
Mr. Shapiro said the Silver Glen problem had to do with the faulty installation, so they
paid a significant portion of the cost.
Mayor Vandergrift said he would like to find a solution somewhere between having the
City do geotechnical testing on property about to be developed and requiring underdrains
for all properties.
Commissioner Parker asked if there were no ramification on a design flaw, so that the
City cannot go back to the umbrella insurance that the engineer had at the time.
Mr. Hamstra said if the borings were made before the 94-95 year when it was very wet,
they would have observed groundwater substantially below normal conditions. It also
depends upon what the conditions were at the time of construction. Mr. Hamstra said
soils are very sporadic.
Mayor Vandergrift asked what period does the two years cover. Mr. Rosenthal said
the two year period is typically from the time the City issues a Certificate of Completion
for the infrastructure improvements, usually at time of platting. Mr. Rosenthal said the
City formerly had just a one year bond and had increased it to two years. He said most
cities still have one year bonds.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the bond could begin at completion of the subdivision
instead of at the inception. Ken Hooper, of PEC, said it takes effect at the time the City
takes ownership.
As he needed to leave the meeting, Mayor Vandergrift said he had no problem with the
priority of the projects as listed and encouraged staff to seek grants to fund as many of the
projects as possible. He suggested that a JP A Committee be formed to bring a
recommendation to City Commission.
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April 24, 2000
Mayor Vandergrift gave the gavel to Mayor Pro Tern Anderson at 8:14 p.m. and left
the
meeting.
Mr. Shapiro said the City must take it over when public streets, drainage system, water
and sewer are in place. He said bonding companies will not provide maintenance bonds
for more than two years. He said it would actually cost the developer less to underdrain
every lot than to acquire a three, four or five year bond.
Mr. Shapiro said staff will be discussing the problem and will bring it back to a meeting.
Mr. Shapiro said staff feels the projects are in the order of magnitude and that the first
two projects must be done. He pointed out that many projects have been done, explained
his concerns about funding, and asked for direction.
Mr. Hamstra pointed out that if the first four projects are done, the other projects that
have not been constructed to date (Taylor, Franklin, Pioneer Key I) cannot be built now.
Mr. Hamstra said, in light of the financial issue, the last five projects could be discussed
in detail later. He concluded with a recap noting the cost to complete the Phase I CIP
Projects not constructed to date and the Future Phase II Projects was approximately
$3,500,000.00, instead of $2,800,000.00, because of an addition to Franklin/Taylor. He
said $530,000.00 is what remains for the original program.
In response to questions from Mayor Pro Tern Anderson, Finance Director Horton
explained that the revenue from stormwater utility fees was for stormwater operating
expense to pay the debt service and the projected revenue amount is $1,012,000.00.
Mr. Shapiro said the problem is increasing maintenance costs.
Mayor Pro Tern Anderson said so there is $500,000.00 now to do any projects that we
are going to do and we don't know where the rest of the money is coming from. Mr.
Shapiro confirmed that is correct.
Commissioner Parker asked if there were any grants for the Starke Lake project. Mr.
Shapiro said staff will look to see what they can find, but it is generally very difficult to
get a grant for something the state doesn't want you to do to start with.
Mayor Pro Tern Anderson said he thought it was a good list.
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Commission Work Session
April 24, 2000
Mr. Hamstra said there should be a 30 to 45 day turn around for the permits to replace
the Starke Lake Wells which have failed.
Commissioner Parker and Commission Johnson suggested doing Project Numbers 1,
2, and 4 with effort for funding to do Project 3.
Mr. Shapiro said the projects will placed on an Agenda for the entire City Commission
to vote on, based on this consensus.
ADDRESS JP A ISSUES
City Manager Shapiro said he and the Mayor had discussed the JP A, and the Mayor had
suggested he and the three or four people who negotiated the original JP A meet to discuss
the JPA and the other JPA's and report back to Commission with a document for review.
He said for the record that the Committee to study the JP A should be made up of the
Mayor, Mr. Wagner, Mr. Shira, Mr. Rosenthal, and Mr. Shapiro.
It was consensus to have the Mayor represent the City Commission on the Committee.
Mr. Shapiro said Mr. Testerman has discussed with Planning Director Wagner the
possibility of reviewing County projects within the City's JP A using Ocoee's Land Use
Regulations. He said the County has agreed to that with another city.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 8:27 p.m.
Attest:
APPROVED:
~dJll' A .IL)JpMd~
anan Green, Deputy CIty Clerk
't!:-'____.
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