HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-27-06 Minutes WS
MINUTES
OCOEE CITY COMMISSION
July 27, 2006 at 7:15 P.M.
CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP
I A. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Vandergrift called the workshop session to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers
of City Hall.
Roll Call: Mayor Vandergrift, Commissioner Hood, Commissioner Anderson, Commissioner
Johnson, and Commissioner Keller.
Also Present: City Manager Frank, City Clerk Eikenberry
Mayor Vandergrift asked Commissioner Hood to introduce this item since the workshop had
been called at his request. Commissioner Hood advised he would like the residents to have the
opportunity to speak first, and he will hold his comments until later in the meeting.
Richard Doss said he is not in favor of residents voting only for the Commissioner in the district
where they reside. He thinks residents should vote City wide for all four Commissioners, as we
do for the Mayor, so they would not be able to win an election with such few votes. He is still in
favor of districts for the purpose of having Commission representation in each area of the City.
He also stated that term limits would not be necessary if we had City wide voting, because the
citizens would vote someone out of office if they are not doing a good job.
Commissioner Johnson said he has run many times, and it does not matter if it is 10% of the
voters or 100%, they will put someone out of office if they are not doing their job. He said it
does not matter to him if the residents vote for City wide elections, but he hopes they will not
consider taking away the districts; there should always be fair representation for all areas of the
City. He described a situation in the past before there were districts, where three of the five
Commissioners lived in the same neighborhood of Sleepy Harbour. He said it all boils down to
what the people want.
Francis Watts said she has voted for 36 years and is in favor of keeping it divided into districts.
Rosemary Wilson stated that during the Canvassing Board at the last election she had some
issues with the Mayor sitting in on his own election and hearing the conversations taking place
while they were counting. She feels that the Charter should reflect that during elections for the
Mayor, that he not be on the Canvassing Board while they are counting his/her votes. City
Attorney Rosenthal said that last election they had a charter revision based on discussions with
the Supervisor of Elections; basically, he rendered the opinion that another person should be
appointed to the Canvassing Board. He said the Commission did appoint Jean Grafton to fill that
position because of the special election causing it to be necessary. He said to amend the Charter
would require a referendum on that point; without a Charter amendment he would provide the
Commission with a legal opinion that the County temporarily appoint someone to fill that
position. City Attorney Rosenthal said, in understanding what the Charter says, the Supervisor
of Elections does not believe that an incumbent candidate can sit in on a Canvassing Board.
Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27,2006
Mayor Vandergrift opened up discussion with the Commissioners of the Charter by page
number.
Commissioner Keller commented he was in favor of the districts and the City wide voting and
wanted to look into coming up with a Charter referendum.
Commissioner Johnson said over the years a main issue has been term limits. He has run City
wide ten times and won with a higher percentage of votes than by district, so he would be
content either way. He said it is up to the people, but one thing to remember now is the town is
far larger and more diversified than it used to be. He stated that if they get too many items, then
they will have to do a referendum and let the citizens debate it. A committee would need to be
formed to decide what the concerns are and be brought back before the Commission to pick out
the ones to be put on the election for the citizens to decide.
Commissioner Anderson said he does not have a personal problem either way, City wide or by
district. However, from a standpoint of running City wide it would seem like a Commissioner
might be more involved in HOA's outside of his district. So, it is a good way for candidates to
get out and get to know more people, rather than only the citizens in their direct area.
Commissioner Hood agreed with Commissioner Anderson; however, he thinks it is nice for
citizens to have a point person in their neighborhood that they can talk to. He has no problem
with the term limit issue. He agrees that the Mayor should not be sitting in on the Canvassing
Board, especially during his election and that should be addressed.
Commissioner Anderson inquired about the County doing the Canvassing in the past with the
Presidential elections and asked if that were possible. City Attorney Rosenthal said he believes
that in the Presidential primary years, the County does count the absentee ballots because
everything goes in a single sealed envelope with no way to separate them. The Canvassing
Board then receives the results of the election. He said there is two years out of every four when
the Canvassing Board has to count the ballots. City Clerk Eikenberry said the County is
discussing canvassing absentee ballots for us in the upcoming election. She said it is possible to
have a mail-in referendum ballot done in December.
Commissioner Hood commented that Commission could have more input on the hiring of
Department Directors, Fire Chief, or the Police Chief.
Commissioner Keller added that he would like to see the Police Chief and Fire Chief positions
being decided by the Commission.
Commissioner Johnson said the reason we do not have a bigger turn out for our municipal
election is because they switched us from November to March. Therefore, not as many people
will go out and vote in March as they would in November.
Nancy Parker, Sawmill resident, said that one thing for the City wide election is that each
district has unique points, such as mostly commercial, that would make a City wide election
more beneficial to some. She said she would definitely like to see them getting back onto the
November ballots. She added that the elected officials should not have the final say in hiring a
Police Chief or a Fire Chief. Commissioner Johnson agreed that the Commission should not
have the final say in the hiring, but should have a voice in the decision process.
Richard Doss, Rewis St., said he likes to vote and wants to be able to vote on all candidates.
Mayor Vandergrift went over the Charter page by page with the areas he sees needing change:
C5, paragraph CI The year of incorporation is not clear.
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Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27, 2006
C6, paragraph C6
C13, paragraph C9
C17, paragraph I
C22, paragraph C20
C23, paragraph C21
C26, paragraph 25A
C27
C29, paragraph C30
C32, paragraph 38C
A statement is repeated in C7.
Would like to see the last sentence include the word responsibility,
rather than privileges. Also commented on a few misleading
sentences and City Attorney Rosenthal explained.
It is written in a way that is hard to understand based on
one's perception and should be reviewed.
Mayor is elected basically for ceremonial purposes; he said that
causes an inequity problem because he is elected City wide and it
should state his power more clearly.
Who is in charge during the City Manager's absence. He is not
informed when the City Manager is absent and that needs to be
communicated better.
City Commission should establish city departments and he does
not think that happens.
Should the City Clerk position be appointed by City Commission
and Mayor.
Personnel Board. He asked who was on that board and was
informed.
City Manager may transfer appropriations between departments...
He said there was a problem with that section in the past. Mayor
Vandergrift said he pointed out a few issues when the election
started. He said the citizens are not fully aware of the power of the
Mayor and it should be clearer.
Mayor Vandergrift spoke about the federal government's checks and balances and compared it
with that of the municipal government's. He said the City government should emulate the State
government with an Executive Branch (Mayor at top), as is the Senate. Another thing is the
Sunshine Law, which prohibits Commission from even talking to each other one on one;
however, if the Mayor was given a veto power he could talk to others.
Commissioner Keller stated he was not in favor of an Executive Branch or Strong Mayor at this
point. He likes the idea of one person on the commission being elected by the City as a whole;
however, does not know if he would like that person to have such a strong leadership. He said it
is tough for someone to try to run the City when it is not a full time job, which is why having a
City Manager is a good idea. He also said he does not agree with the idea of Commission hiring
the Police Chief or Fire Chief.
Mayor Vandergrift asked if anyone else felt that his issues were worthy of going into a study.
Commissioner Hood only agreed that it would offer the citizens a chance to offer their opinions.
Commissioner Anderson did not think it was because it looks like a redistricting will happen
next year, whereas a districting commission would be created. He thought working on a charter
commission during an off year would be more beneficial. Commissioner Johnson commented
that he agreed with Commissioner Anderson, and added that he thought a 7 member Commission
would be something worth looking into since Ocoee has grown so much. He did not think a
Charter Review Board was necessary in the next few months. Commission Keller agreed with
Commissioner Anderson as well.
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Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27, 2006
Max Jacobs, Spruce Street, stated he was in favor of a Charter Review Board because there are
some changes he felt needed to be considered.
Mack Arlo, 1120 Ursula Street, said he was in favor of the Charter Review Board.
5 Minute Recess
Mayor Vandergrift said they were here to discuss the Evans High School moving its location to
the current ninth grade center. He gave a brief history of the way things have happened with the
county school district since he has been in office. He introduced the president of the Pine Hills
Council, Nancy Bertina. He presented a power point slide show of his research on the relocation
issues of Evans High School.
Mayor Vandergrift explained the many issues that he felt were at hand if Evans High School
relocated, from monetary to community, and asked all to listen and be thinking of ways to handle
it and obtain firm leadership. He said the relocation would be affecting two communities, Ocoee
and Pine Hills. He stated that petitions and letters were one way to take action. He further
explained the concept of charter schools and the benefit thereof. He showed maps of the current
schools and their districts and the possible options of redistricting.
Nancy Bertina said that Pine Hills and Ocoee are truly neighbors and the school board has failed
them because the schools are in such bad condition, some even have leaks. It is a disgrace and
Pine Hills always comes to Ocoee when they need help, and they need help in redistricting. It is
going to take a lot of effort to get their students back. The school board has caused Evans to
receive three F's in the past five years. She said they need to dialogue with the school board and
work on the issues.
Ms. Bertina stated they have a new apartment complex coming to Silver Star and Hiawassee
that could add 400 students to their school. They currently have a B middle school and an A and
B elementary, so why do they have an F high school. She said it is not easy, but they really need
to work with the school board on the issues.
Mayor Vandergrift said he thinks the school board is trying to solve an educational issue with a
facility issue and it is costing tax payers a lot of money. He asked all to imagine a class with 25
students, 10 that wish to learn and 15 that do not want to be there, and asked how a teacher is
supposed to get through to those 15 uninterested students. He said the American way is to solve
problems with money, but the way to get through to children is to teach them to be smarter. He
firmly believes that individual tutoring is necessary to help a majority of the students who are
struggling so that they will be interested in learning.
Commissioner Keller said he understood the school board will not authorize transferring. He
thinks what they are planning to do is to move Evans High School so that they can redistrict it
and rename it so that they do away with the old school and move some kids to Ocoee and some
to Edgewater to relieve them of the F school. He thinks the best thing would be for them to
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Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27, 2006
rename the school and start fresh; however, the problem will not be solved.
options:
I)
2)
He suggested three
Do nothing.
Try to create a charter school.
worth looking at again.
3) Create an Ocoee school district as a separate entity. The state is looking at reducing
the size of the larger school districts because there are so many F schools. He feels
they have some people who would make an excellent school board and they could
elect the members and have their own supervisors and superintendents. He feels it
could be funded by the county tax money. Take one cent of sales tax for building
schools and keep it in an escrow. Have school impact fees so that developers coming
in would invest in the schools that would need to be built to accompany them. First
thing is to get the figures on costs of current schools and see how much of that tax
money we actually get back. He believes the money is there and we just need to
move it.
We have beaten this subject to death, but he thinks it is
Commissioner Keller said they have two OCPS representatives serving the Ocoee area. He said
he was not pleased with Karen Ardamann when they went from WOHS to OHS. He said that Jim
Martin is the other representative and took the easy way out by agreeing with Karen Ardamann
when he should have attended those meetings himself and made his own decision. He said they
spent too many tax dollars because of bad planning and decisions. We need someone to look out
for Ocoee and creating our own school board would prove that possible.
Commissioner Johnson abstained from any comments until he gets fully educated on the
situation because tonight was the first time he has heard about the issues. He said they need to
consider the cost. He asked that everyone gather information and bring it back to Commission.
Commissioner Anderson said that OCSB has lied to them enough and he thinks they need to be
independent of them.
Commissioner Hood agreed with Commissioner Keller's idea and the real need will be money.
He said they can only go by the past actions of the OCSB and that seems to have been a lot of
personal interest, rather than support for Ocoee. He said the school board has dropped the ball
on Evans High School and the building is just ridiculous and run down. He stated the battle is
now in the hands of the community and they have to do something about it. He said a committee
needs to be formed that can follow the Evans issue all the way through and get something started
on charter schools or Commissioner Keller's idea. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Mayor Vandergrift asked the City Attorney about injunction. Commissioner Anderson asked
if Evans moving and renaming would prevent students the opportunity of transferring, because it
would no longer be considered an F school.
Commissioner Keller said that if Ocoee could be a leader and establish their own school district
that Pine Hills could follow and do the same. Once the community is working to implement the
rules and control of their school, they have a personal interest in the success of the school and
good things will happen, including getting their students back.
Martha Lopez Anderson explained what the Count Me In initiative is all about. She said the
students are failing to get a better education because of the school board and the community has
to do something about it. She stated the schools do not have equal resources and it has been an
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Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27, 2006
ongoing situation in Orange County for years. She announced a Steering Committee meeting for
Count Me In.
Laura Keller said they were at WOHS for years crumbling and are now dealing with OHS. If
they have their own school district they will struggle for awhile, just as others have, but it will
eventually work well.
Michelle Flanigan, Carriage Oaks, said they should consider splitting Pine Hills into two
districts and two high schools. She has two young children and is learning a lot and thinks this
situation is sad. She thinks that Pine Hills is a melting pot of people and the area needs to be
cleaned up. She said that Pine Hills needs to put money into their schools to provide programs to
help in the areas that are failing. She has no idea what the teachers are like at that school, but
thinks that good leadership skills is a key to a healthy learning environment.
City Attorney Rosenthal stated an injunction is time consuming and expensive; it is a tough
battle to win. He said the first step to pursuing their own school district would be to do research
on the laws and what their options are, then evaluate it. They also need to see what resources
they would want to commit to this, such as using Ocoee tax dollars. Maybe hiring a public
relations firm would have better results in this area.
Randy Freeman said it was evident and justifiable that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with
OCSB. He said that everyone present is dedicated to Ocoee and our schools. The difference
between a community building a school and the school board are evident with OHS and Evans;
whereas, OHS is on a huge lake surrounded by park areas and Evans is in the middle of an
industrial area surrounded by highways. He appreciated the diagrams shown by the Mayor of the
redistricting options. He explained how Evans moving to the furthest western boundary of their
city is only isolating them from their own community.
Mr. Freeman expressed his agreement with Commissioner Keller's bold idea. He said when an
initiative like Count Me In is not embraced by the school board a big issue is spoken. He said
we need to take some action; the raising of our collective voice is more powerful than any
attorney or judge. He said we need to be personally involved because it is affecting our
community and OCSB will not be able to ignore Ocoee.
Mayor Vandergrift asked if this was something that Mr. Freeman would follow up on and study
the idea of an injunction. He said if OCSB really wants to be mean, they will have an
engineering company out tomorrow surveying the land. He has experienced in the past a school
not being in the radar scope, yet was built a year after he mentioned putting a charter school on
that same property.
Randy Freeman said it was certainly an option; however, he would agree with Mr. Rosenthal
that the storm here is not so much a legal position as an issue of freedom. He said we are free to
do what we want to do as individuals and so are the elected bodies. For someone to tell us to
stop doing something because they do not want you doing it, well they bear a very heavy burden
contingent upon our freedom. He said the best option would be to go to the powers that be.
Mayor Vandergrift said the powers that be have already denied that they had intentions of
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Charter Review Workshop/Evans High School Discussion
July 27,2006
moving the school and look at where they are at already; it was discovered that this plan has been
going for two years.
Commissioner Johnson said that Pine Hills has 80,000 people and they need to get organized
and stand up for themselves too. Commissioner Keller announced that he would like for them
to look into the cost, how much tax money it would cost to come up with their own school
district. The school board should be able to tell them how much money goes into each school in
Ocoee, how much they are getting, and how much they are spending. He believes if they start
now they could have their own school district by 2010.
Discussion ensued regarding the many things that need to be researched. Commissioner Keller
emphasized that he is not referring to a charter school, but Ocoee creating its own school district.
That means they will be away from Orange County's school district and will create their own
rules and have their own superintendent. Randy Freeman said a pilot program could be put into
place if they take it Tallahassee.
3. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9: 10 p.m.
Attest:
APPROVED:
City of Ocoee
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