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HomeMy WebLinkAbout12-21-95 SS ~ MINUTES OF THE MEETING BETWEEN MAYOR VANDERGRIFT AND COMMISSIONER ANDERSON HELD DECEMBER 21, 1995 Mayor Vandergrift called the meeting to order at 10:05 a.m. in the Commission Chambers. PRESENT: Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson. Also present were City Engineer Shira, PPTD Supervisor Elmore, PEC Engineering Consultants Hooper, Hamstra and Tegue and Deputy City Clerk Green. ABSENT: None. DISCUSSION RE: DRAINAGE ISSUES Mayor Vandergrift displayed pictures of areas of the City where drainage is an issue and they were discussed as follows: ~ Amber Ridge This picture showed the erosion resulting from running water. Engineering Consultant Hooper advised that the developer did not install the underdrain system that was identified in the plans, but had later installed them at his cost. The underdrains had helped, but did not solve the problem. Mayor Vandergrift said run-off had been prevented in the Reflections subdivision by laying a three or four-foot boundary of sod after the road was built, and he proposed including that provision in the Land Development Code. Forest Oaks The next picture showed deterioration of the road on the right-hand side of Prairie Lake about one block beyond Tranquille Oaks. Mayor Vandergrift said he understood a French drain was needed, which would drop the groundwater level. He referred to Essex "river" in Coventry and said another French drain would have to be added or a hole put in the drain. City Engineer Shira explained the disadvantage of using holes in the pipe and explained a way of installing underdrains without tearing up driveways. Discussion followed regarding surface water and groundwater. Engineering Consultant Hamstra asked if the ground felt "squishy" when he walked on it, and the Mayor replied that it did. Sawmill The next picture was taken when the water was down and the tree was alive. Mayor Vandergrift indicated the build-up of sand brought on by the County and the widening of the road to some degree. He said 80% to 90% of the water in Sawmill was being produced by the County. He felt it should be the County's responsibility to address the problem. He pointed out some of the roads in Sawmill that had underdrain problems. Mr. Hooper said the base of the road was cracked. ~ Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift ........ and Commissioner Anderson December 21, 1995 Sawmill on Lumberjack Mayor Vandergrift pointed out that the subsurface of the road was coming through the surface of the road. Copper-colored stains on the sidewalk indicated groundwater seepage. Coventry on Essex Mayor Vandergrift said two years in a row it had been a river running for at least two months out of the year. The transformer for one house blew up because it was sitting in water. He said both sides of the road would need French drains. He saw the solution in some cases as underdrains, as proposed by PEC. He understood there was a drainage well in Sawmill, but the County said there was no record of it. He thought if it got down low enough, they ought to find it and beg the EP A to let it be opened. He said the water would not enter the aquifer. Commissioner Anderson asked if that would defeat the purpose of percolation. Mayor Vandergrift said it would for the water that reached that height but would not for the rest. The well would not be utilized unless there was flooding. ...... Mr. Hooper said under the base of the table is hard pan and above that would be the pond. Punching through the hard pan would help, but the problem is permitting. Altamonte Springs had been trying to do the same thing on Lake Orienta but had given up because of not being able to get a permit. Mayor Vandergrift said he would be glad to argue the point for a permit. Mr. Hamstra said the St. Johns Water Management District (SJWMD) and the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) had different philosophies regarding drainage wells. The SJWMD would like to use the wells again because they recharge the ground water; however, DEP is stuck on water quality. Mayor Vandergrift said if there had not been a sink hole in Sawmill the year before, there would have been flooded houses this year. Mr. Hooper said he would provide names and numbers to approach for permits. Discussion followed regarding the drain in Sawmill. Mayor Vandergrift said to contact Kelly's Nursery regarding the drain. ~ Forest Oaks. Train Track The soil and rocks had washed out, and the railroad replaced that with rocks. Mr. Hamstra said this had been analyzed, and it was in the CIP program, #11, in Phase I to provide an out-fall system to two existing small pipes. PEC had submitted a report to the County about six months before saying what the problem was and who was partially to blame. They suggested a share in the cost. The County responded that it was more the fault of the City for not requiring the developer to outsize the pipes underneath the railroad tracks. The County said it would pay for some of the improvements, the railroad said it would provide some of the manpower to assist with the culvert underneath the railroad and Ocoee would do the rest. Another option was to keep the present system and dig a big regional pond on the undeveloped land to the east, but that would cost twice as much as a pipe. There were two pipes in the area, one about 12" and the other about 24". Discussion followed. The expense to correct this was given at $257,000. Mr. Hamstra handed out a proposal. Mr. Elmore pointed out that a solid wall had been built on 2 ~ Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21, 1995 Star Drive which had an impact on this area. Mr. Hamstra indicated the out-fall system would accept all the offside runoff, which was mostly County runoff. Rock Bed of Train Track No discussion. Railroad Track Right-of-Way. Debris and Litter The railroad had agreed to work with the City in putting a bike path, walking trail or horse trail in back of the houses along the railroad track right of way. The track interconnects with a horse path in Clarcona and with the West Orange Trail in Clarcona. Mayor Vandergrift said a path would have to be viewed as a linear park that would have to be maintained. He indicated that the track roadbed was being deteriorated by all-terrain vehicles. Clarcona Across Apopka- Vineland Road. Horse Trail Eventually the West Orange Trail will intersect with the horse trail. Mayor Vandergrift said in that area, the West Orange Trail would be a horse trail on one side and a people trail. He said this would be an excellent way to stay away from a sidewalk on A.D. Mims Road from Forest Oaks. '-" Intersection of Apopka- Vineland and Hackney Prairie Road This picture gave evidence of water running toward Sawmill. Mr. Hamstra said this would be an ongoing maintenance problem until Hackney Prairie Road was paved. Pioneer Kev II Mayor Vandergrift explained that one of the problems with Pioneer Key II was that the drainage starts at Pioneer Key I on Silver Star Road and goes as far as East Crown Point Road, and all that area drains toward Pioneer Key II. He indicated a ditch that ran to the south of Silver Star Road and to the west of the ending of Silver Star Road. The water runs down Silver Star Road and goes into a culvert on the other side of the road. Commissioner Anderson stated his impression of Pioneer Key II was that there was about $1 million in repairs there. He wondered why the City did not just purchase the area. Mayor Vandergrift felt it was not necessary to spend $1 million. He said it was necessary to keep the water moving. Mr. Elmore said a lot of the runoff was originating from the groves on the west side, and this problem was being corrected. Mayor Vandergrift said to clean out the trees and ditch and keep the water moving would give relief to Pioneer Key II. Shopping Center Parking Lot Mayor Vandergrift indicated there were two drainage outlets from the parking lot. At times, the water has gotten so deep in the drainage ditch that the two ends of the parking lot had gone ~ 3 "- Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21,1995 under water. He indicated a fence and said there was a retention pond for the shopping center behind it. The retention pond was expanded, which helped some. An overflow ditch runs to the west of the shopping center, but he said the ditch was not deep enough to bleed off the water. He advised that the shopping center owner had installed a speed bump. His solution was to go to the end of the Miami curbing and put in a pipe to the ditch to Silver Star Road, and the water would be drained instead of running into the parking lot. Commissioner Anderson asked if the speed bumps affected drainage, and the answer was yes. Ditch on Silver Star Road Mayor Vandergrift said that ditch goes to the trailer park, makes a right, runs into another ditch with a concrete bottom, goes into a 24-inch pipe on the bottom and a 12-inch pipe on top and then goes underground. He said there was nothing to prevent blockage. Same Ditch Farther to the South This picture showed a fence leaning over the ditch. Mayor Vandergrift said the ditch stayed clogged with weeds. Ditch, Pioneer Key II on Right. and Drainage Ditch from Shopping Center Mr. Elmore said he thought the ditch was privately owned. Mayor Vandergrift said when that ~ ditch filled, the area flooded. Debris at Culvert at Entrance to Park Mayor Vandergrift indicated that culvert stops up quickly because of the debris from the road. Back of Park at Drainage Facility The picture was taken looking east to west on the last street into the park. Mayor Vandergrift said this is a drainage area in the concrete-bottom ditch that sometimes gets clogged. Pioneer Key. Secondary Drain from East Entrance Mayor Vandergrift indicated the debris on the grating and offered a solution. Pioneer Key. Main Drain Mayor Vandergrift suggested moving to the right side of the road and digging out the road a little so the water would move. Pioneer Key II. Deterioration Around Drain Mayor Vandergrift said he did not know what it would cost to drop a manhole in there and widen the opening. Discussion followed. Mr. Hamstra said the community was low, and the pipes were too small. He thought street-sweeping, improvement in grade and new grates would ~ 4 ~ Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21, 1995 take care of water from a shower. To take care of the big problem, the City could resort to buying the homes or putting in the pipe system. Pioneer Key I. Drain at Main Road Entrance Mayor Vandergrift indicated the drain gets clogged with leaves, and the water makes a right- hand turn and goes to the main drain. He wanted to see the City put in a speed bump to direct the water into the drain to make it work. He said the drain needed to be on the side so it did not clog from leaves. Pioneer Key II. Main Drain This picture showed the drain clogged with leaves. Mayor Vandergrift suggested lowering the road level and putting the box in the opening. Discussion followed. Ditch Behind Pioneer Key I Mayor Vandergrift said the ditch is occasionally cleaned by hand. The ditch turns north into a marshland and then into a ditch to the north. Mr. Hamstra said he had been dealing with Mrs. Robbins regarding her perception of the standing water in her backyard and what contribution Pioneer Key I had made. She had filled in that portion of the ditch to prevent the water from Pioneer Key I flowing past her house. An agreement was reached to dig a new hole '--" in Pioneer Key I along her property line to the north of her property. She agreed the City could reshape and dig a deeper ditch on the west side of her property. A well-defined channel would be dug, and easements were being obtained. Discussion followed. Pioneer Key II. End of Road that Drains Into Concrete-Bottom Ditch Mayor Vandergrift said it could not be cleaned with a backhoe and had to be cleaned with shovels. Commissioner Anderson asked Mr. Elmore what effect drain-clogging had. Mr. Elmore said it depended on the area ofthe City. Peach Lake. Culvert from Road into Lake With the exception of the new area, the entire area had swales drainage. Mayor Vandergrift said the swales had not been reestablished in 35 years. He had been told it was illegal to reestablish them, and unfortunately the two he had reestablished became ditches. He said during a heavy rain, there is a "cumulonimbus thundercloud of black gook" going into the lake, and the lake has a layer of silt where there used to be a sandy bottom. He opined that if the swales were reestablished, the amount of water running into the lake could probably be cut 75%. He advised there is enough room between the road and the lake to establish a retention pond to catch the water before it runs into the lake. Mr. Hamstra said a shallow swale to get the water off the ~ 5 ~ Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21,1995 roadway and capture the nutrients from yards would drain well. Mayor Vandergrift referred to the flooding on Kimball Drive, which they refer to as the hill. At the comer of Kimball and Russell, the water runs down Kimball to where Kimball comers. Swales/ditches had been dug, and residents were still sand-bagging their homes because the water is not being directed off the road at the beginning. He said the swales needed to be reestablished. Discussion followed. Mr. Shira asked Mr. Elmore how much right of way is there, and the answer was 50 feet. Mr. Hamstra said one question was whether the homeowners would accept a little standing water in their front yards. Discussion followed. Mr. Shira said there would have to be a determination of the width of the swale since in some areas there is the edge of the road and a sidewalk, which imposes limitations regarding private property. Discussion followed. Swale This picture showed the narrowing of a swale that had been in place at least two years. Mayor Vandergrift said sidewalks had been installed because of the sidewalk program without thought to the effect on drainage. Discussion followed. ~ Intersection of Russell and Flewelling Mr. Elmore indicated there was no underground drainage. Ditch at End of Center Street Mayor Vandergrift stated it had washed out two years before. Mr. Shira pointed out that it was on private property and that the City had concerns about continuing to repair it. Requests to the County for repair had been denied, but the County said they would help the City design a solution for $100,000. Discussions were held with the property owner regarding annexation and a solution for the property owner and the City, but the property owner expressed no interest. Mayor Vandergrift said the water was originating from Ocoee, and the drainage along Jay Street, Center Street, Orange Avenue, etc., was swales. The biggest drain into it was from Starke Lake Circle. He said the problem might be eliminated by using a retention ditch, which could be extended another 200 feet to the west. With the reestablishment of the swales and the use of the ditch, the problem would probably be eliminated. (In the Mayor's plan, it was listed as Problem Area #5). Discussion followed. CuI de Sac. Pioneer Key I Mayor Vandergrift suggested regrooving the road to let the water flow to the main drain. '-" 6 ~ Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21,1995 Pine Street and Ocoee Hills Road Mr. Elmore said there was a French drain there with no pipes. Mr. Vandergrift suggested converting to swales. Discussion followed. Downtown Ocoee Mayor Vandergrift said the downtown drainage was continuing to deteriorate, and he felt a street sweeper would help. Mr. Elmore advised the pipes were installed in 1923 and the concrete was not reinforced. He said the City might consider sleeving them. Discussion regarding brick streets followed. Mr. Shira said the paving of brick streets occurred in the 1960s and 1970s, but that was no longer the practice. Beach Area on Starke Lake Mayor Vandergrift said every drain from downtown Ocoee shot into the lake. He said between the road and the lake there was room to put in small retention ponds to keep the runoff from going directly into the lake. Mr. Hooper agreed 100% in order to protect the lake. Mayor Vandergrift indicated an eroded area at the City well. He said a drain needed to be set so that when the water reached a certain level, it would stop automatically. The wells needed to be screened so they would not get clogged. ~ Debris in Stream behind City Hall Mayor Vandergrift said for years he had advocated putting about three dams in it and putting ponds in a park for fishing. From the dams, there would be waterfalls. The hard pollutants would be stopped that come from Bowness Road and drain into the lake. Looking Through the Railing Underneath the Road Mayor Vandergrift indicated some of the debris that would eventually go into the lake. Another drain to the north was clogged. Drainage from City Hall Complex and Employee Parking Lot Mayor Vandergrift said if the level of the lake were controlled, there would not be so much water standing on the road. He said the two wells should control the level of the lake. Water running from the fire department, City Hall parking lot, etc., winds up on the comer of the street. He suggested a 12-inch pipe at the bottom of the downspouts off City Hall to run the water into the retention pond. Mr. Shira pointed out that the drain was not at the low point of the road. If the water drained directly, the Division might say untreated water was running into the lake; that with the way it is now, there is some form of treatment. Discussion followed. Mayor Vandergrift stated that the areas of Starke Lake, Orange A venue and Center Street desperately needed the reestablishment of the swales. Commissioner Anderson asked if '-'" 7 "-" Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21,1995 changes would be made when Silver Star Road was widened. Mr. Shira some there would be significant drain work when Silver Star is improved. Commissioner Anderson asked about the maintenance of retention ponds, and Mr. Shira explained the maintenance of dry and wet ponds. Discussion followed. Mayor Vandergrift asked how steep a swale could be and not erode, and Mr. Hamstra said it would need concrete. Erosion in a Back Yard on Center Street Mayor Vandergrift said possibly the State could be implored to put in a small retention pond to keep the runoff out of the lake. Ditch with Drain at Bottom Mayor Vandergrift asked how hard it would be to let the water run into the ditch and use it as a retention ditch so the intake would allow the water to settle in the ditch and not run into the lake. If it rained hard enough, the water would rise but not run directly out into the lake. He suggested building up the edges so the inlet was not at the bottom of the ditch. He felt the number one priority was to prevent flooding of anyone's house. Five places he ~ suggested should be given priority were: I) Dovetail, 2) Pioneer Key II, 3) Pioneer Key I, 4) the Forest Oaks railroad tracks, and 5) Kimball Drive. He said those were human suffering issues. Beyond that, the issues were those of mud puddles and water quality. When John Fergus on Dovetail approached the mayor a year before, he had already dug the ditch across the back of his yard, and he felt he had solved the problem. Mr. Shira had explained to Mr. Fergus that the ditch would have to be 10 to 20 feet wide, and he was not willing to have a ditch that large in his back yard. Discussion followed. Commissioner Anderson expressed concern about future maintenance and/or liability of ditches and pipes. Mr. Shira commented on his dealings with Mr. Fergus. Commissioner Anderson said he had found the meeting very informative and that it had helped him understand the problems. He was especially concerned about Issues 2a. and b. of Pioneer Key II. Mayor Vandergrift asked if, in addition to the priorities he had listed, there were trial solutions that could be implemented before doing a $1 million project. He directed attention to Problem 13, Lake Olympia Pond. Mr. Shira said the City was taking the position that the pond was owned and maintained by the homeowners' association, who asserted that Pulte Homes should help. The City had approached the St. Johns Water Management District for the homeowners. '-'" 8 '-" Meeting between Mayor Vandergrift and Commissioner Anderson December 21,1995 Mr. Hooper said the problem areas the Mayor had described were very close to those identified by PEe. He said determining priorities would be the main issue. As he understood it, their task was, after storms or difficult times, to find the problems, identify them, and list them, and PEC had done that. He said after priorities are determined, cost becomes an issue. Discussion about funding methods ensued. Mr. Hamstra said the only thing designed in detail was the pipe system for Pioneer Key II, but it was not too late to change. Mayor Vandergrift said the County had put a drain line down Clarcona-Ocoee Road, and he asked if they had ever cleaned it. The answer was no. Discussion followed. Mr. Hooper said the best thing the City could do to control costs would be to get two or three contractors to work directly with Mr. Elmore and let them design and build as they went along. Mayor Vandergrift asked if PEC had worked from a listing of items prior to their list of 59 items dated October 18, 1995. Mr. Hooper said he knew of no earlier list and that before that time they had been doing some basin studies. He said the list of problems areas had been compiled from response to complaints, from areas identified by Mr. Elmore and from the basin ~ studies. Noting that some of the problems were long-standing, Mayor Vandergrift said he wanted to keep the process going, and that he might suggest in the next few months that Commission and staff schedule a retreat to explore drainage issues. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 12:57 p.m. Attest: APPROVED: Cit.y ofOcoee 1 ~. ~~...l/t. s. Scott Vandergrift, Mayor };'-~ !v/ll/oJ Marian Green, Deputy City Clerk '-' 9