P & Z - 03/12/2002 THE MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING HELD TUESDAY, MARCH 12, 2002
AS LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY
CALL TO ORDER
Vice Chairman Golden called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m. Following a moment of
silent meditation and the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, a quorum was declared
present.
PRESENT: Vice Chairman Golden, Members McKey, Miller, Rhodus, Riffe and
West. Also present were Planning Director Wagner, Senior Planner
McGinnis, Senior Planner Grimms, Building & Zoning Official Velie,
City Attorney Rosenthal and Deputy City Clerk Green.
ABSENT: Chairman Bond and Member Landefeld.
CONSENT AGENDA
The consent agenda consisted of approval of Item A:
A. Minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting held on
Wednesday, February 27, 2002.
Memb McKe seconded by Member Riffe moved to accept the Consent Agenda as
presented. Motion was approved without objection.
NEW BUSINESS
MCELROY PLACE PRELIMINARY SUBDIVISION PLAN PUBLIC HEARING
CASE NUMBER LS- 2001 -004
Senior Planner Grimms presented the Staff Report for the proposed Preliminary
Subdivision Plan (PSP) for McElroy Place. The project will include 127 single family
residential lots. The site is located on the south side of McCormick Road at the
intersection of the future Clarke Road extension. The subject property is currently
undeveloped and was primarily an orange grove. The southern edge of the property abuts
a wetland area that is to be placed within a conservation easement.
The DRC reviewed the PSP on February 8, 2002, and voted unanimously to recommend
approval with no conditions.
Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
Mr. Grimms concluded with Staff's recommendation that Planning and Zoning
Commission recommend approval of the Plan as date stamped received by the City on
February 14, 2002.
The public hearing was opened.
City Attorney Rosenthal said, "On this particular project, Friday and today, we became
involved in a question raised by an adjacent property owner with regard to the project in
terms of some issues relating to public records requests for documents related to this
project. At least there is a potential argument that the City may not have timely
responded to these public records requests and basically, after reviewing the situation
today, discussing it with the Planning Department Staff and with the City Manager, it is
our recommendation from a legal standpoint that you go ahead and hear any comments
from the applicant or the adjacent neighbor or anybody else in the public that you care to
hear tonight, but that you then proceed to continue the public hearing to the Board's next
meeting in April on the basis that in our view this would cure any prejudice which the
adjacent neighbor might claim with respect to the project. I can let the adjacent neighbor
and the like speak for themselves. Also I think it may affect in terms of your direction on
this after you hear from the applicant and the adjacent neighbor what your inclination is
on that. I think if your inclination is not to continue it, there are probably a number of
issues that the adjacent property owner is going to want to present, discuss, raise
questions on tonight, some of which might be able to be resolved in this intervening
period between the City Staff, the applicant, and the adjacent property owner."
Cecilia Bonifay, of Akerman Senterfitt & Eidson, P.A., representing the applicant,
Pineloch Management Corporation, was present along with Kevin Kramer, of
Professional Design Associates, consultant, and Richard Gonzalez, an officer of Pineloch.
Ms. Bonifay said they were unaware there was an issue until they arrived tonight. She
said they would be happy to proceed however the City feels is appropriate. She said they
are prepared to make a presentation to the Commission and that might help answer some
questions. She said they would be happy to agree to a 30 day continuance to give the
adjoining owner the opportunity to come in to the City.
Becky Vose, 106 McCormack Road, Apopka, said she is here in two capacities. She is a
concerned property owner, as she and her husband own the 13 acres immediately to the
east of this property. She said she is also representing some of the other property owners
as a land use attorney. She requested a postponement of this hearing. She said she had
inquired about this property three times during 2001: in August, on October 22, and in
November. She said possibly there was a misunderstanding about which property she
was asking. She said she had been told that there had been no plans submitted. Having
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
seen the notice with regard to the hearing, she had been unable to come to City Hall to see
the Plans until last Friday. She said she had been studying the Plans since that time but
has not completed the work that she needs to do on them. She said she believes that they
would be prejudiced if the hearing were not postponed. She is hoping that in the interim
they will be able to get everything worked out with the developers. She said they have
some serious concerns about some things that are there, and she thinks they could resolve
them as long as they had an opportunity to meet with the City and to meet with the
developers and to finish her research.
Member Riffe asked when the Plans were submitted to the Planning Department and
when the notifications were sent to adjacent property owners. Mr. Wagner said the
original application was in September 2001. He said they had been unable to determine
where the confusion lies, noting that Pineloch Management owns another piece of
property south of this project and no plan has been presented for that property. Mr.
Wagner said notices are generally mailed to give seven days advanced notice, the
property is posted, and ad is placed in the newspaper as the City ordinance requires.
Attorney Rosenthal said he does not believe there is a question as to compliance with
the noticing provisions in Ocoee's Code as it was, in fact, the noticing provisions that
brought this hearing to the attention of the neighbor.
Member McKey asked why it is felt that the hearing needs to be continued.
Attorney Rosenthal said, "If you proceed, from the standpoint of the City, there is a
possibility that we could be facing an issue or question as to compliance with the public
records law with respect to the earlier requests and Ms. Vose has put in the record tonight
what she believes to be the prejudice to the adjoining property owner to her and her
clients as a result of not being responsive to that request. If we then got in litigation, not
that litigation has been threatened, there is a possibility that nothing would happen with
the property during the course of the proceeding and a potential remedy would be to
ultimately overturn any decision that might be reached by the City Commission. Not to
predict what the outcome would be, and I have not tried to determine the true set of facts,
but my feeling just from a cost standpoint, the most cost effective thing to the City is, if
we can avoid a dispute which brings us into court and resolve it in 30 days, that is a cost
effective solution from the standpoint of the City."
Member McKey asked if the 30 days delay would cause a hardship for the applicant.
Member West said it is his understanding that the applicant does not have a problem
with the 30 days and he supported the continuance.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
Attorney Rosenthal clarified that they would like the continuance to be to the first
meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission in April (April 9).
Member Riffe said she felt it was a matter of fairness as all adjacent owners get seven
days, and she thought the notices had given sufficient time for the adjacent property
owners to come to City Hall to look at the Plans. She questioned the postponement for
the applicant.
Vice Chairman Golden expressed the opinion that it was best to work these things out
not in a public forum but between the applicant and the adjacent land owner. He
supported the continuance.
Richard Gonzalez, Vice President of Pineloch Management Corporation, the owner, said
as Ms. Bonifay said, they do not object to the 30 days to give neighbors and anyone else
who wants to review the plans they have submitted an opportunity to do so. He said,
however, they are not in the position, and will not be in one, of negotiating with people
over things. He said they would submit their plans, go through the public hearing, and at
that point disclose what their concerns and issues are, and will address them at that point.
He said he felt they have spent a lot of time, money and effort going through the process,
designing a good project that is in compliance, as they see it, with the City of Ocoee's
regulations. He said if there is something not in compliance, they will fix it, but he is not
here to negotiate. He said he is submitting a plan based on the City's rules, regulations
and laws, and said they have not done anything wrong.
Member West said he thought having information would allay concerns.
Mr. Gonzalez said they have no objection to providing information, but he does not
intend to negotiate with people off site outside of this forum. Member McKey said he
thought it should be addressed through Staff as usual and he saw no reason to diverge
from that.
Mr. Gonzalez stressed their commitment to provide a quality project, to protect the
environment, to comply with all the City's rules and regulations and zoning codes. He
said their effort a year ago to have the West Orange Trail run through their property had
been unsuccessful because they had been unable to garner support from other property
owners. He said they will return for the hearing and at that point, whatever questions are
raised or whatever things they might have missed, they are willing to address and correct.
He said they have trust in the City and want it to be through this forum. He said they
want their neighbors to be happy, and they do not want to disturb their quality of life.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
'%110, March March 12, 2002
A corrected Staff Report had been distributed in the meeting, and Member McKey asked
how it differed from the one in the packet. Senior Planner Grimms said the corrections
were in the Background paragraph: 127 single family residential lots (instead of 88), and
City R -1 AA zoning (instead of R -1 A).
As had been recommended by the City Attorney, Member McKey, seconded by
Member Rhodus, moved that the Planning and Zoning Commission continue the public
hearing for McElroy Place Preliminary Subdivision Plan, Case Number LS- 2001 -004 to
the April 9, 2002, Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Motion carried 6 -0.
Attorney Rosenthal pointed out that, per the City's notices, the property would continue
to be posted, but there would be no additional advertising or notice to adjacent property
owners as the notices that go out specifically give notice that if it is continued it would be
simply posted as part of the next agenda, with the sign continuing in place.
Member West asked Planning Director Wagner to encourage the neighbors to meet with
Staff. Mr. Wagner said that he would be happy to do so, and that all the records and
files are available to anyone who wants to come in.
Now Vice Chairman Golden said Item III C would be considered at this point in the meeting
at the request of Building & Zoning Official Velie.
AMENDMENT TO LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE PUBLIC HEARING
SETBACK REQUIREMENTS FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, ORDINANCE No. 2002 -10
(AS LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY)
Building and Zoning Official Velie presented the Staff Report for the proposed
amendment to the Land Development Code, Article V, § 5 -6 (B) revising the setback
requirements for accessory structures in residentially zoned areas. The setback
requirement is currently 7%z feet for rear and side lot lines, and the proposed revision
would reduce it to 5 feet. He said citizens who have requested encroachment into the
setback via variance procedures have been granted the variance by City Commission nine
times out of ten. He said Staff is also recommending adoption of this amendment.
Member McKey asked how many variances to this Code have been requested in the past
year. Mr. Velie said there had been five to six.
Mr. Velie said most other communities have a standard of five feet, and the new Florida
Building Code also recognizes a three foot setback for Fire and Building Code for
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
_,. March 12, 2002
accessory structures. There is a provision in the proposed ordinance for a three foot
setback for smaller sheds (i.e. 10' x 12').
Member McKey asked how this would affect Homeowners' Associations (HOAs)
Covenants and Restrictions. Mr. Velie said the City does not enforce HOAs. He said
there is a warning on the building permit application advising that there may be possible
HOA requirements.
Attorney Rosenthal said if an association has a more restrictive provision, that more
restrictive provision would apply, but would not be something that is enforced by the
Building Department. It would be enforced by the HOA.
Member McKey asked if the Code referred to local HOAs, and Mr. Rosenthal said it
does not, but this is not treated differently from other provisions of the Land
Development Code. If the HOA was more restrictive, it would be necessary to get the
HOA's approval. Setbacks may or may not be one issue typically dealt with by an
association.
Member McKey said he appreciates and understands the challenges of Code
Enforcement and the Building Department in this respect, but he hates to see some of the
standards that the City has worked years to get to be eroded away, and he thought this
would be a kind of erosion. He said as the president of an HOA, they get requests all the
time about outbuildings, and they are afraid of them because there is not much to protect
them as an association, and they do not want to make it easier for homeowners to get
around them. He asked if tighter provisions could be included to help prevent these
buildings from springing up all over, so the HOA and its Architectural Review
Commission (ARC) would have something to lean on and to have as criteria.
Attorney Rosenthal said on the Association issue, from a Staff standpoint, they have
tried to be very careful about not having the residents of Ocoee to look to the City of
Ocoee to enforce individual and different architectural design criteria for every
subdivision. The City has avoided in our Code getting into that HOA issue. If a HOA
comes to the City and says the City has issued a building permit which violates the City
tells them that is a private matter because the City has no legal authority to deny the
issuance of the building permit if it complies with City Building and Zoning codes, even
if it is in violation of an Association's document.
Mr. Velie said many of the newer subdivisions outlaw utility buildings altogether.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
Member Riffe said she was very surprised to see this proposal. She felt that approval of
five or six cases was not sufficient to support amending the Code. She said five foot
setbacks should be the bare minimum, citing maintenance problems with smaller setback
areas.
Attorney Rosenthal explained that the Board of Adjustment had recommended denial of
the requested variances in all cases, but the City Commission had overruled and granted
the variances in all cases. He said this why the City Commission had asked Staff to
explore an alternative to this ordinance to route through this process for your review and
study.
Member Riffe said she would feel quite comfortable in recommending denial and then if
the Council wanted to overturn that decision then so be it. She said she sees no planning
justification for the Code amendment. She said if there would be a change to three feet, a
height change should be considered as well.
Member Rhodus, Member Miller and Member West supported the proposed change.
Vice Chairman Golden said he thought the three foot setback was below the standard of
the Southern Building Code, but said he could support the five foot setback, but not as it
'fir is written
Member Riffe said she would support five feet.
Member McKey asked about reducing the setback to zero. Mr. Velie said that could be
done if there were certain firewalls on the shed. Member McKey said he thought the
system was working as it is now and he would prefer to err on the side of conservation.
Member Rhodus suggest requiring a privacy fence with three foot setbacks.
Mr. Velie pointed out that ninety per cent of properties have utility easements that are
usually about five feet. He said the language states that utility sheds may not be within
drainage and utility easements.
Member Riffe pointed out that Ocoee's minimum lot standards are larger than those of
most other cities in central Florida. She said five feet should be sufficient for a typical
lot. She stated again that height should be an issue.
Mr. Wagner said when he had set about trying to change this some years ago, in the
areas of definitions of accessory structures and the different setbacks, etc., the City's code
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
leads off into twenty different directions. He recommended looking only at the setback
now, and addressing defining type of structure and height in the update of that portion of
the LDC.
The public hearing was opened. As no member of the public was present, the public
hearing was closed.
Rewording a preliminary motion that was not seconded, Member Riffe, seconded by
M • mber McKe mo ed th. t Plannin. and Zonin ' Commissi on recommend a royal of
a Land Develo.ment .de am-ndment to allow acces o structures to be five 5 feet to
the side lot line and five (5) feet to the rear lot line, but striking "provided, however a
shed no lar • er than 120 square feet and not located within a utility or draina • e easement
ma be located no closer than three 3) feet to the rear lot line and three (3 feet to the
side lot line." Motion carried 6 -0.
Responding to members requests for clarification of zero setback, Mr. Velie explained
that building codes are different from zoning codes. He said under building codes any
building could be taken down to a zero setback, but then zoning codes and easements
must be considered.
.• Mr. Wagner confirmed that he understood from the conversation that Staff needs to
discern the different types of accessory structures and this is a problem in the City Code
anyway, so it will be addressed in the update.
CROWN POINT PROPERTY ANNEXATION PUBLIC HEARING
CASE NUMBER AX- 01 -10 -01
SENIOR PLANNER MCGINNIS presented the Staff Report for the proposed annexation of
the Crown Point Property requested by the applicant, Orange County Public Schools.
The subject property comprises approximately 6.25 acres and is located west of the
Western Expressway and north of Fullers Cross Road. The subject property is proposed
to be developed for an entry road and for stormwater management as part of the Crown
Point PUD Master Plan ( "Coca -Cola Property").
Ms. McGinnis said on March 4, 2002, the DRC unanimously recommended approval of
the proposed annexation. She said Staff also finds the requested annexation to be
consistent with the JPA Agreement, the state annexation criteria, and the standards
established by the City. She concluded with Staff's recommendation for approval of the
Annexation Petition for the Crown Point Property, Case Number AX- 01- 10 -01.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
Nita, March 12, 2002
The public hearing was opened. As no one was present from the public to speak, the
public hearing was closed.
Member West, seconded by Member McKey, moved that Planning and Zoning
Commission recommend approval of the Annexation Petition for the Crown Point
Property, Case Number AX- 01- 10 -01. Motion carried 6 -0.
OLD BUSINESS
None.
OTHER BUSINESS
None.
COMMENTS
Planning Director Wagner said the Planning and Zoning Commission will definitely
NI ..• meet on March 27 and April 9 and there are likely to be two meetings each month for the
next few months.
Member McKey reported that Commissioner Jacobs is actively working on legislation
concerning control of enclaves by the municipality that surrounds them. He said she is
planning a public meeting on this issue and urged members to attend and support her
effort.
Responding to Member McKey's concerns about extension of the West Orange Trail,
Mr. Wagner said they are negotiating with Mr. Gonzalez concerning a school park site
on his property with the relocation of the West Orange Trail through the park portion of
the property.
Member West asked if there was new information on the environmentally sensitive land
in the Crown Point Property. Attorney Rosenthal said they have identified a group of
the properties for which they have obtained appraisals and are in the process of evaluating
them. He said the Water Management District has increased the amount of the City's
grant as the grant amount was not enough to cover the acquisition of the land. He said, to
date, none of the properties has been donated. He said the City would own the property,
subject to a Conservation Easement in favor of St. John's. He said Ocoee's was the
largest project funded by the Water Management District.
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Planning and Zoning Commission Regular Meeting
March 12, 2002
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 8:10 p.m.
Attest: APPROVED:
k tljtj. C ,.J Marian Green, De puty City Clerk d es Golden, Vice Chairman
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